The Alexander and Giles SYG Cases

Good news for Marissa Alexander.

Marissa Alexander

Marissa Alexander

On August 1, 2010, State Attorney Angela Corey filed aggravated assault charges against Alexander that carries a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence when a gun is involved.  Marissa Alexander was convicted on three counts of aggravated assault after firing a warning shot at her ex-husband inside their home in August 2010.   In a 12-page decision, on September 26, 2013, the First District Court of Appeal in Florida wrote that it rejected Alexander’s contention that the trial court erred in declining to grant her immunity from prosecution under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, but it found that “the jury instructions on self-defense were erroneous” and ordered a retrial.  The decision reverses a May 2012 lower court decision that denied a retrial.

Michael Giles

Airman, Michael Giles

By comparison, The First District Court of Appeal entered a 2-page decision in Michael Gile’s case, affirming his conviction without comment,  but reversed and remanded on an error of fines applied by the State.

While on active duty with the Unites States Air Force and stationed in Tampa, Florida, on February 6, 2010, Michael Giles, a native of Atlanta, Georgia, was invited by a friend to a party in Tallahassee, Florida. Shortly after arriving at their destination the group found themselves in a volatile atmosphere.  The entire club of patrons was pushed outside by security and Michael was separated from his friends, who were the only two people he knew in the area.  Witnesses on the scene stated there were between 20-40 people fighting, describing it as mayhem, dangerous, and even deadly.

Michael was rushed by a crowd of people from the front. He tried to move but his unknown attacker struck him from behind, at which point he fell to the ground.

At his trial, several witnesses stated that Michael was just standing to the side not provoking anyone, or causing a commotion.   A close friend of Michael’s attacker testified that she was worried he would seriously injure or kill someone if he did not stop.  Michael’s attacker testified in open court, “I wanted to badly hurt the next person I saw”. He admitted that Michael did nothing to provoke him.

Michael had a legal right to carry and conceal. In the United States Air Force, Michael was trained to handle a firearm.  Michael feared that the angry mob would turn on him and he would be killed or seriously injured. He fired a warning shot to get away from his attackers.  Like Marissa Alexander, Michael Giles was charged with aggravated assault.  He was sentenced to 25 years.

Michael’s mom is petitioning Florida Governor Scott to commute the sentence.

http://www.change.org/petitions/commute-the-25-year-mandatory-minimum-sentence-for-michael-giles

As of the writing of this post, the petition has 49,629 signatures and needs 371 more.  You can also visit the website, http://www.justiceformike.com/

By yet another comparison, in one of his statements, George Zimmerman stated that he did not know whether he actually shot Trayvon Martin.  Zimmerman fired his gun in a residential area where he had seen that nearby residents were home.  Yet, according to Zimmerman, after firing his gun, he had no concern for where the bullet went but instead, jumped on Trayvon’s back, commanded that he stay still, and checked to see if anything was in Trayvon’s hands. The State did not include aggravated assault as a lesser charge in the Zimmerman case.

Posted on 09/27/2013, in Michael Giles and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 57 Comments.

  1. Xena, It’s good to have you back… Hope all went well and you are winding down now….

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    • @crazy1946. HEY!! It’s good to be back. Tired and have to unpack, but I’m taking my time. Think that tonight will be an early turn-in night.

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  2. Hat tip to Mindyme!

    Angela Corey gives her side of the Alexander case.

    Click to access VA_SEP-pg-9.pdf

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    • Xena, After reading A. Corey’s version of the events, I am now left with more questions… It would be nice to have access to a less biased source of information than Mz. Corey… Her truthfulness, after the non prosecution, in the Trayvon Martin case is quite questionable IMO. I wonder why her version is so much different than what the press was reporting at the time? Did the facts of the story evolve over time? I think I’ll pretend I am from Missouri for a few moments and simply say, “Show Me”, the facts, and from a source that is more trust worthy than Mz. Corey and her office…

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      • @crazy1946. Did you read the part about the bullet trajectory? Now, if Corey gives testimony of bullet trajectory credit for the State prevailing in Alexander’s case, why the hell couldn’t she get an expert to testify what the “straight front to back” means in how Zimmerman shot Trayvon?

        Oh my, let me stop now before I get on a roll of the evidence that the State said they had pre-trial to convict Zimmerman, that they failed to present at trial.

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        • Xena, Yes I did read about the bullet trajectory! Perhaps I am simply having a difficult time being objective when it comes to AC! Some day, if I am still alive, the truth will come out about why the state chose to lose the Martin case, that had plenty of evidence to convict Zimmerman…. My gut still feels that there was/is a connection between Zimmerman Sr. and someone very high in the government who protected this murderer for some unknown reason…. but when I say that on another site, several people indicate that my name is accurate, perhaps they are right, but they never give me an alternate version of what caused this travesty to take place….

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          • @crazy1946. IMHO, the State took the jury’s “common sense” for granted. Also, they may not have ever prosecuted a case where the defense made the deceased victim the defendant who could not appear in court and defend himself.

            Does this mean that I have absolute trust in how Corey supervised the trial? No. What stays with me is why they allowed Juror B37 to be seated on the jury. Maybe the State knew that she was O’Mara’s stealth, and somewhere down the line we will see O’Mara go down for it. Maybe not. Who knows?

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  3. i know crazy, i find it so unbelievable to think some schmuck like zimmerman sr. who was only a magistrate, in some other state, would be given such deference!?? especially after this went public and millions of ppl saw and heard this as crystal clear coldblooded murder of an innocent kid! but i can’t give you an alternative reason either.
    this one’s not even close to a self defense case either but the state GAVE him his defense too! it’s too much. i hope DOJ takes this case so bad. this wrong just has to be made right!

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    • shannoninmiami, I don’t think that Zimmerman Sr. influence comes from the time he was a magistrate. I would suspect it came about from something that occurred during his time in the military (cia?)…. Only a guess, but it would probably be a good guess he has some dirt on someone about what happened in that era… But as I said before, this is only a gut feeling and could be totally wrong…. As far as the DOJ is concerned, if and that is a big if, they get involved, it will not be for quite some time, I would think about mid November in 2014, and then will it be a repeat of the Seminole County justice, only time will tell on that part.

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      • crazy — i have a question for you, unrelated to this blog and regarding another which we both frequent and i am wondering if it is ok with all that i may ask you here. would you mind?

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        • fauxmccoy, Actually I would object to your bringing a problem here that does not belong here! If you wish to discuss anything involving that site, feel free to do it there, I will have no problem with your having me banned from there… So feel free to ask (if that is what you wish to do) your questions there… IMO, if you wish to create a problem it would be best to do it where you are protected and not on a site that is not directly involved, thank you for understanding my position on this…

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          • Xena, I hope you understand that I do not wish to have any sort of confrontation here that does not directly involve this site, and does not involve this site in any way. My position is simply that if a poster has a problem with someone it should be addressed on the blog/site where it starts and should end there as well. If you have a problem with me taking this position, feel free to advise me as to what you wish and I will respect your wishes… Thanks

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          • @Crazy1946. Thank you, and I agree. I have communicated with Fauxmccoy privately.

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          • no desire to create any problems, i understand and respect your wishes. please accept my apologies for even bringing it up.

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            • fauxmccoy, No apology necessary, and hope we can agree to look forward to a better, more peaceful tomorrow. Have a good evening…

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  4. http://www.empowermagazine.com/unjust-system-stand-your-ground-second-amendment-rights-failed-michael-giles/

    “The whole time leading up to the trial, the lawyer said we would use the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law,” the elder Michael said. “For a year, that’s what we were preparing for. Then the night before the trial he switched it up and said he talked to his colleagues and felt we should use self-defense. He didn’t even allow Michael to testify on the stand. I don’t know what went wrong.”

    Xena, it appears that the defense attorney that the Giles hired changed his defense the night before the trial….just like with GZ. SYG was not used in the Giles case, self-defense was. No SYG hearing was held for him. It also appears that 3 people were shot that night but only one bullet was found to be from his gun, so his “warning shot” hit his attacker in the leg.

    I’ve been trying to find the exact location where the shooting took place and have only seen references to a “club”, if he took his firearm to a club then he was in violation of the law. This is a section of the concealed license law in which it lists the places that you are forbidden to carry:

    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

    Now, I do feel sorry for this young man and I have signed the petition for him, what I see it is a problem with the State law (10-20-Life law), that it has no wiggle room for sentencing, it is cut and dry. This law took effect in Jan. 1999 and it was a Jeb Bush campaign promise. At the time a violent shooting only called for 3 yrs. Now under 10-2–Life, a shooting that involves an injury or death gets a minimum of 25 yrs. Ms. Alexander got 20 because hers only involved in shooting the gun and the minimum there is 20 yrs.

    I know I’ve posted to you before on the problems that Ms. Alexander had in her case and her appeal for a new trial was granted but not for SYG. In the ruling this was said:
    “We reject her contention that the trial court erred in declining to grant her immunity from prosecution under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law,” wrote Judge James H. Daniel, “but we remand for a new trial because the jury instructions on self-defense were erroneous.”

    The reason her stand your ground was denied was that she passed by 2 doors exiting the home and the garage itself (she claimed she could not get the door to open but the police found nothing wrong with the door). She went out to her car in the garage and retrieved the gun and returned inside the home. Her “warning shot” was not into the ceiling as she claimed but head level and into a room with children in it. Maybe the State will offer her the plea bargain again of 3 yrs (she rejected it the first time).

    We are also missing out on an important thought…. it is your responsibility (as a Gun Owner) to understand the laws regarding use of deadly force in self defense and to be aware of what happens within the legal system when a citizen uses deadly force in self defense. It is the responsibility of the gun owner to know where he can carry his firearm and when it needs to be left at home. As gun owners we have to have some responsibility for our actions and realize that pulling out a gun is not the answer to every situation. But in the end Ms. Alexander did not qualify for SYG and Mr. Giles never asked for it (attorney screw-up).

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    • @towerflower. It’s always good to read from someone who has good info. So, Gov. Bush went about mandatory sentencing in 1999 BEFORE SYG was passed (was it 2003?). So, a person in Florida has a better chance of a lesser sentence for manslaughter under SYG or self-defense than they do for wounding or not killing.

      (Btw, the links to the appellate courts’ decisions in the Alexander and Giles cases are embedded in the above article.)

      What I’m seeing in the Florida judicial system, regardless of facts or disputed facts of the cases, is that self-defense and/or SYG is not equally applied. Here is a case where the man attacking Giles says that Giles did nothing to provoke him and he (the attacker) just wanted to hurt someone, but Giles is not allowed to be afraid and protect himself.

      Trevor Dooley was attacked from the behind and knocked to the ground, but the jury found that David James saw Dooley as a threat and had the right to attack Dooley. Dooley was found guilty of manslaughter.

      OTOH, we have Zimmerman’s case where he admits having Trayvon’s armed pinned while unholstering his gun, aiming at Trayvon’s heart, and firing the bullet, but the jury finds him not guilty.

      How is “reasonable” fear judged by others? It’s an impossible feat for a jury to decide when they see the parties through their own biases.

      A decade after it was legislated, defense attorneys still don’t understand SYG, neither the juries who live in Florida. That —- is —- what —– scares me the most.

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      • Hello Xena, Yes, in Florida a person could get a lower sentence for manslaughter than under Self Defense than they could for just wounding a person. I left SYG out because if a person is found to have SYG then the charges are dropped. SYG gives the person immunity from the aftermath.

        I found an awesome site by a Tampa newspaper, http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases , This site you will see the over the years SYG cases and who won, lost and were still pending as of August 2013. You can break down the cases by race, also it is not fully complete, but a pretty good reference. Since the start of SYG 115 people claimed it and 34 were convicted; of those 14 were Black, 3 Hispanic, and 26 were white. White lost 33% of the time, Hispanics 30% and Blacks 31%. These are about even percentages with more whites losing a SYG claim. Yes there are some cases that have you and me shaking our heads in disbelief and the site I mentioned is only for SYG, you won’t find Zimmerman or Giles in there since they did not claim SYG.

        You know how I feel about Z and the more I find out about Giles, the only thing that I can find that he did wrong was to bring a gun with him to a bar, but I do believe he was defending himself. With Tooley, I’m still mixed and it’s because of how we have discussed the Z case. What if Tooley flashed his gun? Which is what some have said and we have all speculated that is what Z did to Trayvon also and then that Trayvon was justified in fighting for his life. If Tooley did the same thing then is not his victim afforded the same right? With Tooley it will all come down to whether or not he flashed his gun first. If he did not and his victim did not know he was armed then I support him, if he flashed the gun first then I do not.

        I won’t even bring up Alexander because I don’t believe she did anything right. But you will find interesting stories in the site above from neighbors arguing to drug dealers going after each other (by the way the drug dealer won SYG). But what I don’t see is an overwhelming bias toward one race over the other in SYG. Have some stories made the news over others, yes.

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        • @towerflower. To see the percentages in the correct perspective, my question is the racial demographics of the 115. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out and see if it answers my question.

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        • @towerflower. Again, I thank you for that link. Not drawing any conclusions as I have not read all the cases (putting it on a list of projects and don’t know yet to concentrate on justified, convicted or pending). Also something I might consider are those cases that went before a grand jury as opposed to outright charges. Then, to check for those cases that went to trial as opposed to plea deals.

          All of the cases on that link are fatal cases.

          Here is what I learned from the info provided at the link:

          Whites: 77 cases. 26 convicted; 42 justified; 9 pending. When victim was Black; 1 convicted, 6 justified, 4 pending.

          Blacks: 45 cases. 14 convicted; 25 justified; 6 pending. When victim was White; 3 convicted, 4 justified, 2 pending.

          Hispanic: 10 cases. 3 convicted, 7 justified. When victim was Black, 3 justified. When victim was White: 3 convicted, 2 justified.

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        • @towerflower. I have to correct myself. I just found on the database how to sort by non-fatal cases, so they are there. 34 convicted and 72 justified. I have not yet done any breakdown by race.

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    • towerflower, I did not follow the Alexander case enough to make an informed decision as to her guilt or innocence, so your opinion (because it is obvious you did) is in my mind very important. Do you feel reasonably certain that the facts as written in the police report and also outlined by AC in the article that is found in a link here, are some what accurate and that the police did not create the evidence that they needed to gain a conviction? One point that stuck in my mind was the non operational garage door per the defenders of Mz. Alexander, yet the police state that it was working properly. The other problem that I have is the gun shot, it has been stated that Mz. Alexander fired into the ceiling yet the police and AC state that it was shot into the wall near the head of her husband and children. One can but ask which version is true? While I normally would tend to lean toward believing the victim (IMO, Mz. Alexander) parts of the story as I have heard it so far simply do not add up… Your opinion on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance…

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      • Hi @ crazy, I know you directed your question to TF but I had to chime in. I live in Jacksonville Florida where we have a Sunshine Law, the public’s right to information. It is thought by some here in Jacksonville that Ms. Alexander and Mr.Gray enjoyed a highly volatile relationship fueled by passion. That Ms. Alexander ‘gave as good as she got’ and not only reciprocated but initiated abusive behavior.

        My personal opinion is that Ms. Alexander will re-offend once she is (and she will be) released. But the sentence she received was, imo, harsh.

        Judges clearly have the ability to grant leniency. And I do believe this case was ‘personal’ to AC.

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        • Mindyme62,

          Your comment reminded me about gz’s texts and other things that were NEVER released to the public nor used during his trial.

          Technically, is it possible for a Florida resident to request and receive such information?

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          • Hi Yahtzee Unless someone asked the judge to block the information, it should be available if it was part of discovery. Scribd was the court’s download site I used for documents until xena ( My capital x is non functioning) and others began to include the actual documents on their sites. Good question. I’m sure xena has more information than I do, cuz she’s got it like that! 🙂

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            • @mindyme62. I’m unsure if the public can submit an FOIA for documents that were not released in a trial because they are not actually considered “public” about “public” officials or proceedings.

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            • Seems as if “they” have found a way to thwart the Sunshine Law.

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            • As difficult as it is, consider that after he was found not guilty by the (non) justice system his “personal” phone conversations should not be released to the public. Everyone, including this low life murderer has the right to privacy per our laws.. If they had been placed in the public domain (released) during the trial, they would be public record, however they were not, so they are not… I know that is not what you wished to hear, but all we can do is wait for the next murder he commits…. Maybe it will take place in a jurisdiction where he is not protected….

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        • mindyme62: I agree with what you said except the Judge being able to great leniency. They are bound by the 10-20-Life law which is what she was sentenced under. AC though did try to grant her leniency by offering her a plea of a reduced charge and 3 yrs and she turned it down believing that she was in the right.

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      • towerflower

        crazy1946, I do not support Ms. Alexander’s claim of SYG when she left the home and returned with a gun. That is not disputed among any of the parties. Her husband says that, the step kids say that, and she says that. As to the shot her is a photo:
        http://www.letstalkaboutit.info/2012/05/different-views-on-marissa-alexanders_11.html
        this is a link to a story about the case. In it you will see that the shot was at head level and not into the ceiling as she claimed. After the shot went through the wall it deflected into the ceiling.

        Her husband and the eldest child told the cops the first story and then changed it and then went back to the first. He said he changed his story because he didn’t want her to go to jail.

        There was also an order of protection in force at the time by her.

        During this injunction she continued to see him, had a child with him, and had the encounter with the gun with him.

        She at no time ever called 911, not during the shooting or afterwards. When she was out on bail she went to him again and had another fight with him in which he got a black eye. He called 911, she did not and left the area. When the cops met with her she claimed she was attacked and suffered injuries. 2 police officers did not notice these injuries but after she was arrested she complained of head pain, had a new cut under her eye and became unresponsive. She was then taken to the hospital. She had a bruise on the top of her head and a small cut under her eye. Her bail was revoked after that. He said she came over to drop off a child and wanted to stay and he refused which caused her to become angry. Her attorney said it was to get a birth certificate signed, that the child was going to lose health insurance. I don’t know who carried the health insurance but if it was she then that would not happen. Here is a copy of her arrest report for assault:
        http://www.docstoc.com/docs/120355498/Alexander-Arrest-Report-Dec-2010
        This visit was also a violation of her bail.

        Her husband does have a history of violence but she did too.

        I do support a person getting a new trial when something is screwed up in the original trial and she will get one due to improper jury instructions. But in the finding they found no fault on the SYG ruling.

        The main problem is that the laws of Florida do not support any other sentence than the one she got. What you have here is a gun control law with zero tolerance. It was signed into law (and like Xena pointed out before the SYG law) as a tough stance on gun use in crimes. Xena also pointed out and it is true, that if she had killed her husband she could have been sentenced to manslaughter and received a lighter sentence than under the 10-20-Life sentencing.

        But the main point is that she, Giles, and Zimmerman are brought up as examples of unfair use of the SYG. Neither she nor Zimmerman fell into the requirements for SYG, although she asked for it and it was denied rightfully and Zimmerman did not ask for it, Giles wanted it and for some unknown reason his attorney changed his mind on it on the eve of the trial and went for a self defense.

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        • @towerflower. Sorry your comment was held in moderation. It contains more than 2 links.

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          • towerflower

            Sorry about Xena, crazy wanted to see stuff and I don’t know how to post photos.

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            • @towerflower. No problem. Word Press does not provide for photos to be embedded in comments. Some themes allow administrators to use html to embed photos, but you have to be an administrator of the blog.

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        • towerflower, Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the Alexander case. I do not have a lot of time presently to research the case, and with your input, I don’t think I will be in too much hurry to do so. While the length of sentence could be excessive, does it seem that the judge that delivered the sentence do so in a uniform manner? Does her sentence follow the law as written and is it being imposed impartially or is it being used as a weapon against minorities? Sometimes we fail to be objective in our opinions and do not consider all points in the discussion before forming those opinions. Again, thank you and the other individuals that answered my questions…

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          • towerflower

            Crazy1946: Yes the judge delivered the sentence in a uniform manner. He didn’t have a choice in it. She fell into the 10-20-Life law. Under that law when she fired the gun she automatically was looking at 20 yrs. It didn’t matter what the color of her skin was or that she was a woman.

            The law was designed to be used as a deterrent to gun violence/use. Show a gun in commission of a crime–get 10 yrs.; fire the gun–get 20 yrs.; kill someone and you face Life (if not the death penalty). The law doesn’t allow a judge or anyone else to give leeway in the sentencing. But in this case it does appear the AC did have some sympathy toward Ms. Alexander and offered her a plea deal (it wouldn’t have been a gun charge) in which she would only get 3 yrs. Ms. Alexander turned it down.

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  5. delighted to hear the news about alexander’s case. that of giles was news to me and petition signed.

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  6. Signed and shared!

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  7. Jueseppi B.

    Reblogged this on The ObamaCrat™.

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  8. I also believe its good Marissa Alexander is getting a new trial. Hopefully she’ll win this . Does anybody know the if the admitted attacker in the Michael Giles case was white or non white. ? Recently the site funny or die did a video saying there should be a Black NRA. The current NRA doesn’t seem to advocate for blacks in self-defense SYG cases. Alexander Giles Dooley are just some of the many examples the NRA is absent on black self defense SYG. Also Xena glad your rested and back on the case.

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    • @m1. Nothing that I’ve read about the Giles case mentions the race of the attacker.

      A Black NRA?? Is the fear factor there to support one?

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      • ‘just a coincidence’ lol I’ve never seen this before. I think this should be taught in schools!!

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        • @mindmyme. LOL! It’s from Michael Moore’s documentary “Bowling for Columbine.” Oh yes, it should be taught in schools.

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    • Wow, suggesting another NRA! IMO we have one too many now… Don’t we have enough problems with guns now without adding another gun focus group to the mix? I understand the motive, however is that a viable way to resolve the problem? I think the only way to solve this problem is for our justice system to accept that all people of this nation are equal and that includes in the court and punishment portion as well. Equal crime, equal punishment, equal justice… Perhaps I simply ask for too much… no amount of laws will end crime, however when “all” people are treated equally, then the number of criminals will drop…..

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  9. towerflower

    m1, the NRA has backed the existence of Stand Your Ground Laws, they typically only comment on high profile cases when asked by the media. For the record they did not back George Zimmerman at all, in fact they said the facts released did not support SYG and to let the judicial process to handle it.

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    • roderick2012

      @towerflower,

      The NRA didn’t publicly back Piglet,but we don’t know and will never know if they supported him financially.

      IIRC, O’Mara spoke at some type of gun nut convention last year. So it’s possible that the NRA was secretly funding Piglet’s defense fund.

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      • Roderick, The NRA doesn’t get involved in one high profile criminal case like Z’s especially one that doesn’t involve their fights. They are about educating people on the safe use of firearms and protecting the 2nd Amendment. Quite a bit of their budget goes into the later.

        Yes MOM spoke at a 2nd Amendment Conference that was also had speakers from the NRA but it was not run by the NRA it was a separate organization, it doesn’t mean that the NRA was lining Z’s pocket. The NRA is more interested in gaining the support of elected lawmakers by donating to them and not a high profile criminal case. In case you missed it this is what the President of the NRA said about the case. “We have two positions, really. The first one is I watched television just like you have from the other side of the camera and there must be 100 people on television who weren’t there but know exactly what happened. They disagree. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what happened. The facts of that case need to be decided in a courtroom. We don’t know what the facts were, but everything we’ve looked at tells me it doesn’t have anything to do with the Stand Your Ground law.”

        I guess you would call me a “gun nut” since I am a Life member of the NRA and not once in all the please give and support mailings that I got in the year prior to the trial did the NRA once ask me to donate or support George Zimmerman or any other person on trial for a gun charge. If anything they were working on trying to counter the Martin’s efforts to change the SYG law in Florida.

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        • roderick2012

          The only thing the NRA cares about is selling more guns. They are beholden to gun manufacturers and could care less about what their rank in file members think which was on full display when they went public against universal background checks which even a majority of their members supported.

          As for the NRA supporting Piglet we’ll agree to disagree because he’s still receiving money from deep pockets somewhere if he’s still paying Shellie around $3K/month.

          Right after the re-enactment was released a couple of lawyers analyzed it and stated that Piglet had hit on every element that would justify self-defense under SYG yet early in the case O’Mara claimed that he wasn’t going to argue SYG case, but regular self-defense. Why would he do that unless he had some financial incentive?

          But it really didn’t matter because corrupt Judge Nelson basically turned the case into a SYG when she refused to include the initial aggressor language in the jury instructions; however she added that passage from the SYG statute in the jury instructions.

          It’s interesting how O’Mara knew that would still get a shot at SYG as a defense even after Piglet formally waived his right to the self-defense immunity hearing.

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  10. O/T; I googled Machelle Dean and up pops Robert Zimmerman, Jr. (edited by administrator)

    (From administrator) I Googled for the info you provided, and did not find it. To provide links, just go to the URL address at the top of your browser and copy it. You can copy it by right clicking your mouse and clicking copy, or using Ctrl C. In your comment, paste the link by right clicking your mouse and choosing paste, or using Ctrl V.

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  11. The NRA isn’t in the gun selling business, they are into education and training and the protection of the 2nd Amendment. But I do support a Universal Background Check (background checks on gun shows and private sales–closes a loophole in the federal law). But this check, if it had been in place, would not have prevented the most recent mass shootings. What they also need is better mental health reporting, right now the HIPA laws get in the way and there isn’t a central computer system for law enforcement doing the checks to always get the mental health information that does manage to get reported. (think of the communication issues that were found after 9/11, the FBI and CIA couldn’t communicate readily with the other) I think there should also be some kind of reporting of long term medication use, like with Z, in which the known side effects of the med can cause violence/anger issues.

    Z is not the face of the NRA, nor is he someone that they would like to support. MOM once gave an interview right before the trial started in which he was begging for support and a reporter asked him about donations and the NRA. MOM stated he contacted them and the NRA wished him well but no thanks; so you had MOM on record saying that the NRA didn’t support them financially. This is the quote: ‘They say, “We really wish him luck, but we don’t want to be tied to him,”‘ Mr O’Mara told the paper. and the link is below:

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2350323/George-Zimmerman-gained-105lbs-living-mobile-home-outside-Florida-let-bail.html#ixzz2gOhxtI7Q
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    They don’t want to be tied to him for a reason, he isn’t the type of person that promotes the safe use of a firearm. As to who is supporting him now, I don’t know but I can’t see someone supporting a deadbeat like him forever. His donations will dry up and he’ll have to face life. I think his “supporters” are still mainly the $10 supporter who think that Z will still win big in lawsuits against the likes of NBC.

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    • Two sides to a story

      While the Zman definitely lost some support with his post-verdict behavior, he still has a crew of hard-headed diehards online. Not sure what it would take for them to go away. Probably not even another killing. They twist and turn nearly everything that man does into a positive.

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  12. towerflower

    two sides: At this point he has such die hard supporters they could have a video of him committing a future crime and they will still deny it, saying he was set up. Some are convinced that the traffic stops were set ups.

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