Prosecuting Hate Crimes

(This article quotes George Zimmerman’s profanity that he stated in his call to police on the evening of February 26, 2012.)

Wagner_full

Benjamin B. Wagner, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of California

“Crimes motivated by hatred, whether directed at the victim because of that person’s actual or perceived race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation, can have a disproportionate impact on communities and pose unique challenges for investigators and prosecutors. Understanding those challenges is critical to effectively preventing and prosecuting hate crimes.” From: Unique Approaches for a Unique Type of Crime: Prosecuting Hate Crimes, Benjamin B. Wagner, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of California

One night in June of this year, I was up late and decided to see if there were any good movies on television.  There weren’t, so I went to On Demand for premium channels and found a movie titled “Blind Faith” on Showtime.   Turns out that there are several movies with that title, but the one I watched stars Charles S. Dutton, Courtney B. Vance, and Lonette McKee.   The plot advertised for the movie does not give it due justice.   Some might mistake the word “faith” for “religion.”  This movie is not about religion.  It’s a film about prejudices – prejudices between Irish and Italians, Blacks and Whites, straights and homosexuals, artists and traditional careers.  And, it all plays out in circumstances BlindFaith-PosterArtsurrounding a death penalty murder trial.

Courtney B. Vance plays the character of an attorney, and the movie begins with him waiting on the verdict in a murder trial, in present day.  He then takes us back to 1957 and forward again.  The message that biased juries convict innocent Black defendants, and acquit guilty White defendants, caught my attention.  The movie ended with people marching while chanting “No justice.  No peace.” I could have sworn that it was released in 2012.  I did not know it was released in 1998.  Here we are in 2013, and the struggles for equality brought out in “Blind Faith” are still with us.

I saw this movie right around the time when jury selection began in the George Zimmerman case.  It was prophetic.   Two days after the verdict, Juror B37 confirmed that the George Zimmerman jury was biased and conniving.

Then I read U.S. Attorney Wagner’s article where he wrote about the greater impact of hate crimes.  U.S. Attorney Wagner wrote:

“Because they are motivated by bias, hate crimes are often intended to, and do, send a broader message of violent intolerance toward a broad class of persons. Like terrorist incidents, the “message” aspect of the offender’s motive can be profoundly threatening to people far removed from the actual scene of the crime. The fact that the victims of such crimes are selected based on characteristics such as their race or religion can cause all those in the community who share that characteristic to experience similar feelings of vulnerability and secondary victimization. In its impact on the community, the fear of becoming a victim of violence can be nearly as debilitating as suffering through an actual crime. The message of intolerance that is communicated through a hate crime can have broadly disruptive social effects as well, and can lead to greater distrust of law enforcement or friction between racial or religious communities.”

Since the Zimmerman verdict, numerous teens and their parents fear that their children will be profiled, followed, and killed.  As long as the killer claims self-defense, they are set free. It doesn’t matter if the killer is Black, Brown, Yellow or White as long as the victim is painted as a person unworthy of life.  Biased juries are human beings judging whether the killer did their community a favor by ridding it of someone who would become a criminal in the future just because of the color of their skin, or religion, or sexual orientation.

U.S. Attorney Wagner is correct also when saying that hate crimes lead to greater distrust of law enforcement.  Law enforcement has not disappointed us. Since the Zimmerman verdict, newspapers have reported numerous cases of police officers killing or using excessive force on unarmed people.

THIS NEXT STATEMENT IS IMPORTANT

In his article, U.S. Attorney Wagner wrote:

“Studies have also shown that most hate crimes are carried out by persons who do not know their victim, and that the victims are selected based on how they are perceived rather than something they said or did. The arbitrary manner in which victims are targeted in hate crimes can be profoundly unsettling, because victims can do nothing to change their appearance or how their characteristics are perceived by others.”

Wagner goes on to say;  “Because establishing motive is a key aspect to proving the crime, investigations often must range far beyond the criminal act itself to locate evidence relevant to the defendant’s state of mind before and during the crime.”

The U.S. Department of Justice has appealed to the public for help investigating whether a federal criminal case might be brought against George Zimmerman for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.  They have setup a public email address to take tips on its civil rights investigation.  Sanford.florida@usdoj.gov.

The DOJ is not seeking information on where the State prosecution went wrong but rather, information “…relevant to the defendant’s state of mind before and during the crime.”

Let’s start discussion to share what we believe the DOJ should know about George Zimmerman’s state of mind before and during the crime.   Let’s begin with George Zimmerman’s non emergency (NEN) call.

According to his statements to law enforcement, we hear George Zimmerman explain that his reason for perceiving Trayvon Martin as suspicious was based on Trayvon walking, how he walked, and the weather.  Perceiving one individual as “suspicious,” George Zimmerman referred to Trayvon in the plural as “assholes.”  Zimmerman would justify his description by saying he was referring to the guys in the neighborhood committing crime.  We subsequently learned via Frank Taaffe that only Black male teens were alleged to being seen stealing property.  Therefore, when Zimmerman said “assholes,” he profiled Trayvon Martin as representing all Black male teens and all Black male teens as criminals.

When Trayvon ran, Zimmerman called him “fucking coons” although he claims that he said “punks.”  Regardless of the word, it was plural establishing that Zimmerman saw Trayvon as representing a group.

What is your opinion of George Zimmerman’s use of plurals in referring to Trayvon Martin?  What does it demonstrate about his state of mind?

Why would George Zimmerman become angry when Trayvon ran?

Since George Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Trayvon was running to the back gate, why would Zimmerman get out of his vehicle to follow on foot rather than driving to the back gate?  Does this convey Zimmerman’s state of mind?

Did George Zimmerman violate Trayvon’s civil rights when getting out of his truck for the purpose of following Trayvon?  If so, why?

Did George Zimmerman violate Trayvon’s civil rights by failing to render aid after he shot him?

After discussing the aforementioned questions, let’s proceed to other areas, such as George Zimmerman’s associations, his previous calls to the police, and his possible state of mind as expressed by his advocates to the media as well as his defense attorneys.

This post is categorized under “Department of Justice” so those commenting can continue to follow by clicking that category in the top menu.

 

 

Posted on 09/29/2013, in Department of Justice, Justice For Trayvon and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 156 Comments.

  1. “Because they are motivated by bias, hate crimes are often intended to, and do, send a broader message of violent intolerance toward a broad class of persons.(U.S. Attorney Wagner)

    George Zimmerman before the night of February 26, 2012 had expressed his extreme intolerance toward the black youth of the neighborhood whom he felt were victimizing the neighborhood. As far as the facts bear out, only one person seems to be responsible according to the police for the break-ins at the RaTL…..Emmanuel Burgess who is Black. In reality, it was a White youth named Ransberg whom police discovered with the stolen property. Yet, both the police AND George Zimmerman blamed only African American Burgess because for some reason, Burgess claimed that he stole what Ransberg was carrying in his backpack.

    All of George Zimmerman’s prior calls to NEN before the night of February 26, 2012 reporting suspicious persons were to report only Blacks. He never was suspicious of Whites. According to Taaffe, GZ was fed up with this black group who victimized the neighborhood and was not going to take it anymore.

    When GZ referred to Trayvon Martin in the plural as “assholes” and “coons” he was stereotyping Trayvon; GZ was expressing hatred and intolerance toward a Black youth whom he did not know and whom he had never met. He simply lumped Trayvon into a group that he despised simply because Trayvon was black.

    George Zimmerman revealed through his actions that night that he had a “violent intolerance toward a broad class of persons”.

    More later.

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    • George Zimmerman did not drive to the back gate because he KNEW that Emmanuel Burgess, who lived at the back gate, was IN jail.

      George Zimmerman KNEW that Trayvon was NOT Burgess who was the REAL person along with White Ransberg responsible for the burglaries.

      It was George’s hatred of blacks that caused him to rage out of his vehicle and give chase to Trayvon simply because Trayvon was BLACK.

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    • Why would George Zimmerman become angry when Trayvon ran?

      Trayvon was just one more BLACK person who was trying to get away at the RaTL.

      George only reported youths who were BLACK and they ALWAYS got away.

      Thus, George’s anger at Trayvon’s running proves that George stereotyped and racially profiled Trayvon.

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    • Did George Zimmerman violate Trayvon’s civil rights when getting out of his truck for the purpose of following Trayvon? If so, why?

      Yes.

      Trayvon Martin had the right to walk home to the townhouse where he was a guest unimpeded by George Zimmerman who was not a policeman.

      It was for the police to check out Trayvon after Trayvon was reported by gz as being suspicious. It was Trayvon’s civil right to be questioned and cleared by a law enforcement officer.

      George Zimmerman INTERFERED with the police investigation that gz had opened through his NEN call. Trayvon had the civil right to such an investigation.

      Trayvon had the civil right to be innocent until proven guilty through proper legal investigation.

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      • Without any foundation, without even talking to Trayvon to learn that Trayvon was simply a guest returning home from the store, George became a jury that handed down a verdict against Trayvon and a judge that sentencedTrayvon.

        It was with this mindset that gun-carrying George followed, chased, and continued to pursue Trayvon with the end result of George killing this innocent, unarmed child.

        Why did George change his statement during the same interview on February 26, 2012?

        .

        Singleton: OK, what made them suspicious?
        Zimmerman: This gentleman in particular? Um, I’d never seen him in the neighborhood. I know all the residents. Um, it was raining out, and he was leisurely walking, taking his time, looking at all the houses.
        Singleton: OK.
        Zimmerman: Um, when I drove by he stopped and looked at me, um
        Singleton: Had you seen him before?
        Zimmerman: Never.
        Singleton: Never. OK.
        Zimmerman: Um, I know all the kids in my neighborhood, all the adults in my neighborhood, ah, like I said it was raining and he was just walking casually, not like he was trying to get out of the rain, or
        Loud beeps from Singleton’s radio
        Singleton: I’m in an interview.

        .

        Singleton: Alright. And you had never seen this guy before?
        Zimmerman: I don’t recall. It’s always dark. They always come around nighttime and…

        .

        .

        Either George had never seen Trayvon before or George can’t recall.

        It has to be one or the other.

        George following Trayvon because he was black like the other earlier ones that “victimized the neighborhood”?

        George specifically said that Trayvon was one of “These”. If he had used the word “Those”, he would not have been including Trayvon in the “a$$holes” that always got away.

        But, George said, “THESE a$$holes, they always get away.”

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        • Trayvon asked gz “Why are you following me?” George did not identify himself nor did he ask Trayvon why he was there. This is from Investigator Serino’s interview with George:

          Serino: “Did it ever occur to you to go ahead and actually ask this person what he was doing out there?”

          Zimmerman: “No, sir.”

          Serino: (you) ….”had 2 opportunities to identify yourself as somebody who was actually not meaning to do him harm. Problem being, is that we’re visiting in his mind’s eye, which I can’t get into because he’s passed, that he perceives you as a threat. OK, he perceives you as a threat, he has every right to go and defend himself, especially when you reach into your pocket to grab a cell phone.”

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        • “They always come at nighttime”

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          • Two sides to a story

            Yet most or even all of the other incidents happened during daytime hours. . .

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            • Gz must of slipped up there when he said “its always dark, they always come around at night time” because he’s admitting that he’s seen “them” before, at “night”, in the “dark”. but how do you do that if you’re a normal person in your own home at night when it’s dark? you don’t.you can’t see any of “these” ppl unless YOU are OUTSIDE STALKING THEM!

              neighbors have said he rode around w.lights off patroling the hood making them uncomfortable. he’s been harrassing kids. i hope they find EVERY SINGLE kid he ever harrassed so they can help lock his fat murdering ass up for life!

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            • two sides to a story

              It’s unbelievable that the prosecution didn’t call some of Z’s RTL neighbor / victims to the stand.

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            • @Two sides.

              It’s unbelievable that the prosecution didn’t call some of Z’s RTL neighbor / victims to the stand.

              Know why? Because the State did not charge Zimmerman with racial profiling. Then Judge Nelson ruled that neither party could use “racial profiling” during trial. That left O’Mara to use dog whistles and imagery on the jury, inferring that Trayvon looked like those who were committing crimes.

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            • the terrible precedent this bulshit trial sent to all the black boys is so wrong. how are they supposed to live!? who really cares if assholes wanna be racists as long as they understand that they can’t visit that shit on millions of innocent kids. these boys’ feelings are hurting and fragile and their value as human beings are being denigrated by ppl in power- oh and publicly too… they have power over all of us and now other like minded losers out there are taking advantage of the free passes they keep giving out all the way from the top!
              it’s so painful to me i cant understand how Trayvon’s parents breathe. it’s not ok that this trial was thrown away like it clearly was. why do the state attorneys still have a job in this state after everyone everywhere knows what they did? this bigoted attitude and the ppl’s apathy is totally backward, IGNORANT and NOT ALLOWED in a civilized society! even in the whitehouse! it’s gross! but they keep getting away with it!!!! god!!

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            • two sides to a story

              The only good thing about it was that in this case, the racism has been publicly exposed for all to see. . .

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            • @shannoninmiami.

              it’s so painful to me i cant understand how Trayvon’s parents breathe. it’s not ok that this trial was thrown away like it clearly was.

              Oh yes, Tracy and Sybrina are towers of strength and dignity.

              While I can see areas where the prosecutors could have done things differently, IMHO, it would have made no difference with Juror B37 on the panel and her influence over other jurors. Her interview with Anderson Cooper speaks volumes.

              Juror B37 disobeyed the court’s order regarding Serino’s testimony. She postured Donnelly as a physician and expert in voice recognition. She disregarded the law on initial aggressor and effectively gave Zimmerman the right to kill in revenge. She approved of Zimmerman’s profiling and does not think it’s wrong because of the way “those people” live.

              Juror B37’s literary agent said that the jury voted not guilty due to the manner Zimmerman was arrested. IOWs, Juror B37 and some other jurors and alternatives never considered the law, evidence and facts. In their minds, Blacks and “traitors” have too much power and that is what resulted in Zimmerman’s arrest.

              The prosecution could have jumped through hoops during trial. Once the jury went to deliberate, Juror B37 did exactly what O’Mara told her to do during voir dire, which was to advise other jurors that if it didn’t come from the “witness stand” it could not be considered. Other than Juror B37 and one other juror, he did not use “witness stand” but “courtroom.”

              George Zimmerman’s statements and interviews did not come from the “witness stand.” The straddling demonstration did not come from the “witness stand” and Juror B37 did not consider them and apparently, advised other jurors that they could not.

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  2. Taaffe stated point blank that Fogen “…was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore”

    Q) Mad about what?
    A) Fogen was mad about several things, all revolving around what he perceived as problems caused by black males. We come to find that Fogen has issues with anyone of color. Fogen called the police on a 12 year old black kid and said this kid stole his (Fogen’s) bike. The father produced the receipt for the bike with the serial numberf, proving Fogen flat out lied. Why was he not charged with filing a false report ?? Fogen also had no direct encounter with any person of color in which it is documented that he was a victim. This one fact shows he is a racist.

    Q) What was he “…not going to take anymore”
    A) Clearly Taaffe is stating Fogen is a vigilante. If he states Fogen was going to take matters into his own hands, it begs the questions “Why” and against “Whom”
    The “Why”
    As we have also come to find Fogen has been, and continues to be, enabled by all around him. This is a classic bully and “my dad (or someone I know) has connections” show. Again, we come to find this is all too true.
    The “Whom” is black males. The only ones Fogen and Taaffe had a complaint with, real or perceived, is black males. Again we know all of the issues are perceived. Fogens MySpace page and dozens of calls to the police, all on black people confirms all of this.

    Based on the obvious, there is no doubt that both of them are racists. In Marinade Dave’s walk through the neighborhood video, Taaffe repeatedly states Trayvon was heavily involved in drugs. Drugs, Drugs, Drugs. He beat this lie to death and is so hell bent on making Trayvon the criminal, he states that pot made him an angry, violent monster who would beat any white person to death with his bare hands. Note to Taaffe : Pot makes one mellow……get a grip on reality.

    Facts are ignored and manipulated beyond all reality. To play this game, reality must be tossed aside in it’s entirety. Was it in this case…..yep, in wholesale fashion.

    Q) Why did Fogen say “fucking coons” to the dispatcher ?
    A) This is “one from the heart” by Fogen. Lets call a spade a spade here with no pun or insult intended. I have joked about the fact that Fogen has said only a few things we know to be true….
    “…then I got out of my truck”
    “…and he’s a black male….late teeeeeens”
    “…then i grabbed my firearm and fired one shot” (stupid shoulder shrug)
    Of course the best is last……….
    “…my wife is a mess”
    This is pretty much the extent of his truthfulness, but his coons remark, with it’s despicable nature, is pure Fogen. With this remark, he shows he a racist……who is mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

    Q) Why did he use the term “fucking assholes” ? He never met Trayvon. Does he always use language like this about those he doesn’t know ? More than likely. As has been stated in this article, he’s profiling many in a group using a description that is derogatory.
    I dare anyone to say Fogen is an asshole (he is) and not have to endure a full frontal assault by Robbie the Racist for months. Fogen calling Trayvon a “fucking asshole” and using the plural is saying “This asshole (a black kid) and all black kids……get away” which begs the question…….

    Q) Get away with what ? What did Trayvon get away with ? Well, unfortunately, he didn’t get away. This resulted in his murder by a vigilante racist. Trayvon has no criminal record and has never even been to any police station for anything.
    Fogen ……we know that’s a different story. Making this “…always get away..” comment shows he’s a racist.

    Fogen is a blatant racist as is everyone in his posse & that includes SheLie.

    Q) Why would he lie about the coons remark??
    A) This is a no – brainer. He’s a cowardly, lying bully of a racist, with a heart as black as night.

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  3. Great comments guys. Let it roll.

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  4. Lets look at some more of the Fogen racist line.

    He verbally abused, for quite some time a Middle Eastern co – worker by making constant “Achmed, the dead terrorist” jokes about him. His co – worker filed a Human Resources complaint and Fogen went to great lengths to make it seem his co – worker was making it all up to the point he thought he was dreaming.

    Q) How many white people has Fogen done this sort of thing to ?
    A) As I recall, none of record. This begs this then. Has Fogen ever tried to solicit others to do the same thing to people of color. Knowing the type of person he is, my bet is yes. Proof of this is found in the numerous phone calls by Fogen and SheLie several of which were placed by her and one can clearly hear him in the background directing her. It is as clear as can be he’s trying to get other people to do his dirty work. Or more specifically, spread things out. All of these calls were about black males. Combine these 2 issues together and it’s obvious he’s a racist.

    Fact. Fogen stated to the effect he misses trying to run over Mexicans on the sidewalk back in VA.
    Q) Did he ever try to run over any white people ? I haven’t seen any evidence anywhere where he’s ever had a bad word to say about white people. His cast of friends include such luminaries as Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe, Joe Rent a Friend” Oliver and the Ostermans, Mark “Where does he really work” & Sondra “George shot someone else” Osterman. Are there any normal people in this klan. None that I’ve seen…..anyone ?

    It is obvious to the most casual observer that Fogen is a racist of the worst kind. Empowered and armed.

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    • 1. From his 2005 MySpace page:

      http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/02/old-george-zimmerman-myspace-page-surfaces/

      “I don’t miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft (expletive) wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) don’t make you a man in my book,” Zimmerman writes on the page.

      “Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by EVERY mexican you run into!”

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    • Two quotes from this linked article:

      http://thegrio.com/2012/07/16/zimmerman-relative-witness-9-accusations/

      “I don’t know what happened,” the woman said, referring to the shooting. Her voice sounded shaken and she seemed close to tears on the recording released by prosecutors last month. “I don’t know at all who this kid was, or anything else. But I know George. And I know that he does not like black people, and he would start something.”

      “He’s a very confrontational person,” the woman said of Zimmerman. “It’s in his blood, let’s just say that. And I don’t … I don’t want this poor kid and their family to just be overlooked.”

      and

      In those later interviews, the woman said she came forward because she was “afraid that he may have done something because the kid was black.” She alleged that when the two were growing up, Zimmerman’s family, and particularly his mother, “made statements that they don’t like black people.” She said that the family only “like black people if they act white. Other than that they talk a lot of bad things about black people.”

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    • At Car Max he harassed a co-worker of a different ethnicity (Middle Eastern) than his own. This co-worker wrote about George saying-

      •He makes a high school-like humor out of mispronounced or misplaced words that I say to the point that I have to carefully choose my words around him and his group.

      •He never communicated with me in a friendly manner despite my effort to do so.

      •He led a comic show, with John Russo and Cory(co-workers at CarMax), impersonating me in a terrorist character and referring to me as “A f—ing moron”.

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  5. I’ve always thought of this as a hate crime.
    SUSPICIOUS?????
    Never was! IMO

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  6. Now as far as who the aggressor was:

    DeeDee stated that she heard Trayvon say “Get off, get off” just before the phone went dead. This indicates that Trayvon wanted George to disengage from whatever he was doing to Trayvon.

    Trayvon’s saying “get off” indicates that Trayvon was not the aggressor, but that George was the actual aggressor.

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  7. Joseph Shirley states he and his friend (who had just moved into the neighborhood) were walking around trying to see the neighborhood and Zimmerman pulls up on them wanting to know what they were doing there. Again, he doesn’t identify himself, and when they ask who he is, he wouldn’t say. He then wants them to show him proof they live there.

    Where did George get the idea it was his job to approach African Americans and ask them what they are doing in the neighborhood? He then expects an answer without identifying who he is. He tells them he doesn’t want any problems.

    Do we see any incidents of George approaching white people asking them what they are doing in the neighborhood?

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    • I so much hate the fact that this lying murderer is free to walk the streets, carry a gun and perpetuate racism. Why can’t something be done? Something MUST be done!!! this behavior cannot be tolerated and it needs to be made clear.

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    • Two sides to a story

      What a delusional man GZ is. Anyone with half a brain knows you’ll get better responses from people with polite inquiries.

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    • This is new !! How many others did he profile ?? I hope every Zidiot gets subjected to this treatment at some point.

      “It’s my job to ask the questions….” said FogenPhoole……says who ???3

      Mr. Shirley seems to be as cool a guy as you could ask for and for Fogen to be conducting his investigation is absurd.

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      • Others members of the community, including Ibrahim Rashada, told reporters that Zimmerman’s behavior was sometimes unnerving, as when the watchman emailed a description of a suspect to other residents. “I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” Rashada said. After that, Rashada didn’t feel comfortable taking walks around his neighborhood. “I don’t want anyone chasing me,” he said.

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        • Teontae Ami, who also lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, said very few black teens like himself live in the neighborhood.

          Ami, 17, said he and a close friend who is black would sit at the end of a driveway in the evening and felt uncomfortable when Zimmerman would pass them on a neighborhood patrol. They used to greet him, but he never responded, he said.

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          • two sides to a story

            That’s telling. Did the FBI interview any black person who had contact with Zimmerman, or just people like Oliver and Wes Robinson? I get the feeling that the FBI rushed in and rushed out of Sanford.

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    • I wish this had come up at the trial. One of the most heart-breaking things I’ve had to do as a parent was have “the talk” with my son. It is so wrong. GZ said to this guy it was his job to ask the questions? I just can’t take it. I just can’t. Who the EFF does he think he is, questioning people the way this young man says he was questioned by him. And he knew. As soon as he heard, he knew. Ughhh.

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  8. IMO there is another way the DOJ could go after Zimmerman and company. Using the criminal enterprise statutes that are on the books. There is good reason to suspect that Zimmerman and his wife were involved in a burglary ring in Seminole County. Many have speculated that immediately after the murder he and his wife fled the town house they were living in out of fear for their lives, however I don’t think that was the real reason. I would like to ask, what was in their possession in that town house they did not want the police to find? There are a few questions that we don’t have the answers for, how did they have the money to live the life style they were living? They had money to buy gas for two vehicles, they had money to buy food, pay utilities, and expensive legal (and possibly non legal) drugs for his medical problems, pay for two cell phones, and etc,, yet they appear to have an income that would not allow much of this for the rest of the world…. It would be interesting to see their bank statements for about a year prior to the murder. Now it would also be good to see the same from Frank T., Officer Smith and wife, along with a few other residents of the area… It has often been said where there is smoke, there is fire.. but with all that was done to shield Zimmerman from justice, how much actual criminal activity was overlooked and why… Just a few rambling thoughts for the morning for you to think about…. am I wrong? or simply miss reading the actions of Zimmerman and Company? Will we ever truly know?

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    • add to this……in the jailhouse calls between gz and his wife, gz was very keen on getting his computer back from law enforcement.

      Could a trail of questionable activities have existed on his computer?

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      • yahtzee, It would be interesting to see how many of the calls for B&E that Tim Smith was the responding officer on. I think that the bank accounts of the Zimmerman clan and Frank T. and a few other people associated with the SPD need to be looked at real hard. Up to and including a former detective who was busted back to patrol… Maybe someone will open their eyes and look around and see the smoke and search for the flames? I hold no hope that it will come about using the system of justice found in the state…

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    • @crazy1946.

      They had money to buy gas for two vehicles, they had money to buy food, pay utilities, and expensive legal (and possibly non legal) drugs for his medical problems, pay for two cell phones, and etc,,

      And — membership for George at Kokopelli’s Gym.

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      • They must be those “Mr. Softee” lessons.

        What slays me is this testimony. It was stated that it takes at least 5 years to learn what Trayvon used to inflict that savage beating.

        Let me say that again for all the Zidiots. We’re to believe that FogenPhuckingPhoole, with 5 years or whatever of kickboxing lessons, 3 days a week, 2 hours a day, couldn’t get a single lick in with a 158 lb. kid nicked named “Slim” AND believe that Trayvon must have been taking lessons from the age of, what……11 or so ??

        Damn……Slim must have just landed some real lucky blows, that’s all I can say on that one.

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        • @racerrodig. Considering that the physical altercation lasted about one minute, every logical person knows that Zimmerman’s story of what Trayvon did to him cannot be true. Another logical thing is that Trayvon would not have punched Zimmerman in the nose and waited for him to stumble 40 ft to fall. I wished that the State had an expert testify to the recoil of that gun when shooting with one hand as Zimmerman did.

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          • thats so true Xena. why would Trayvon just stay there and hang around to brawl w this strange stalker AND scream for help too??
            nope the only thing that makes sense is gz’s is using some MMA holding technique and forcing Trayvon to scream for help instead of run.
            horrifying.

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            • @shannoninmiami.

              why would Trayvon just stay there and hang around to brawl w this strange stalker AND scream for help too??

              Zimmerman’s story is what I refer to as “bigotvoyant theory” because it would require Trayvon to have foreknowledge that Zimmerman would get out of his truck and follow him; that he would not follow him down the “T” but take another route, and after not seeing him, knowing where Zimmerman would go from there and when he would arrive.

              nope the only thing that makes sense is gz’s is using some MMA holding technique and forcing Trayvon to scream for help instead of run.
              horrifying.

              Arms flailing. That is someone trying to get a grip on the other person. Zimmerman also worked as a bouncer and knows take-down maneuvers. If anyone thinks for a second that Zimmerman did not take an aggressive stance with Trayvon, all they have to do is watch the video recorded at Shellie’s parents’ house as George proceeded to take Shellie’s iPad apart.

              Like

  9. Mr. and Mrs. George Zimmerman were living a good solid upper middle class life with the income of a pauper, wish I could do that… Well then again, I have to look in the mirror and if I did what the two of them did, I would have to destroy all the mirrors in my cave under the rock….

    Like

    • @crazy1946. George and Shellie were living way beyond their means, but someone managed to bail out. That conveys having a means to come into money to keep them afloat and that money did not come from George’s paychecks.

      Also, it amazes me that a young woman without young children would be and stay unemployed. I would like to know the reason for that.

      Like

      • Xena, One might take a guess that he found a way to make a little extra money as a neighborhood watch person. I think what he was watching for is the occupants to leave as well as the police to show up… My suspicions would be that he was not alone nor was he restricted to his immediate area. For some reason he seems to be protected very well in Seminole County and especially Sanford and Lake Mary. If I had done what he did to his wife and her father, up to and including the breaking of electronic equipment, I would have been placed under arrest and taken to jail… Why wasn’t he? It had nothing to do with his wife not filing charges, an assault took place and the police would arrest… This man and or his family has something on someone that protects him from the law…

        Like

        • @crazy1946.

          This man and or his family has something on someone that protects him from the law…

          I think you’re right. Sounds almost like they have a good blackmail scheme going.

          Like

          • and blackmail, something embarrassing maybe. whatever. but that’s exactly right up gz’s ally. that’s the type to scam he’d really be into.

            Like

            • @Shannoninmiami. Yes!! Zimmerman worked for a company that approves mortgages. Chances are they subscribe to services that provide credit reports, employment history, assets, and court ordered judgments. He previously worked for Aames along the same lines. It would take a mere click of a computer mouse for him to check on each of his neighbors and every officer in the SPD.

              The thing with blackmailers is that they need to find dirt. When they don’t find any but do have personal information about others anyway, is when they threaten emotional extortion by threatening to misrepresent that information to others, painting it in a bad light. We see this with his supporters who misrepresent a baggie with marijuana residue as “dealing pot.”

              Had we only heard Zimmerman’s recorded and video taped interviews, and not his NEN call, we would think that Zimmerman was very polite and of steady character. His NEN call tells us that he isn’t. What’s more, it also tells us that he acts on impulse when things are not going his way.

              Additionally, we saw him take a God Father posture in court that Judge Lester described as a “potted palm” while Shellie misrepresented her knowledge of the money donated to them through PayPal. George Zimmerman is a practiced deceiver.

              Like

            • roderick2012

              Xena, remember that Mommy Dearest Gladys worked at the circuit clerk’s office and she had access to tons of legal documents and one can only imagine what sorts of secrets and accusations were included in those court papers.

              Like

            • @roderick2012.

              Xena, remember that Mommy Dearest Gladys worked at the circuit clerk’s office and she had access to tons of legal documents …

              You’re right. But, that would be in Virginia. That doesn’t mean the nature of the beast changes but rather, their method of getting the personal info of others.

              Like

            • roderick2012

              You are correct. I keep forgetting about the Zimmermans’ past life in VA.

              I am sure that the information that Mommy Dearest and Papa Zimmerman obtained was about much more prominent and powerful people than the rednecks in FL, but influence crosses state lines.

              Like

            • @roderick2012.

              I am sure that the information that Mommy Dearest and Papa Zimmerman obtained was about much more prominent and powerful people than the rednecks in FL, but influence crosses state lines.

              No doubt. Once in Florida, George could use his Sheriff uncle as the muscle.

              Like

    • Same here……”Mirror Mirror, on the wall……..where’s the killer….who took no fall”

      Karma……it’s a bitch.

      Like

  10. On Sept. 30, 2013, Attorney General Eric Holder told reporters that the investigation into any civil rights crimes in the Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman case is “ongoing,”

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/303836-trayvon-martin-investigation-is-ongoing-says-ag-eric-holder/

    Like

  11. I pray the Doj brings charges! This case truly upsets me how he murdered trayvon for no reason! And got away with it, I truly believe the DOJ has the goods to go fourth with federal charges as long as the prosecution can put on a solid case which corroborates the evidence that he murdered trayvon And it was not a killing of self defense!

    I never understood why the prosecution never got any of the black neighbors to testify like Mr Shirley and his friend who lived there to explain how fogen questioned them, I find it very ironic that fogen always wants to question people about who they are but once they question him he doesn’t want to reveal who he is and doesn’t want anyone questioning his “authority” I believe fogen stalked trayvon for a while and figured he could take him ,when trayvon questioned his authority by asking why he was being followed , fogen became enraged, the struggle ensued, and trayvon was murdered.

    Why does Olivia bertalan get to testify about break ins that had nothing to do with trayvon, but other black neighbors who were harrased by fogen aren’t called. I can’t find the clip anywhere anymore but last yr on jane veleze Mitchell a black neighbor says she has personally never had any contact with fogen, but one day her husband happened to be driving and fogen was following him even after he’d seen the man go into his garage fogen slowed down and watch him go all the way in his house, then eventually drove off. The young woman said her husband told her about what had happened and that it kind of annoyed him and freaked him out!

    Fogen has a history of confronting people, although trayvon made the first verbal exchange, fogen did not answer trayvons question which should have been something simple like I am neighborhood watch is everything ok ? Did not mean to startle you! But are you lost? I did not recognize you so the police are on thier way, I figured you were lost so I called. Instead fogen answers his question with a question! Totally disregarding trayvons question & challenging him.
    Even taffee says George confronted trayvon, and if taffee believes that, then that means Rachels account of fogen asking what are you doing here is correct!

    Like

    • Frank Taaffe quotes from another interview:

      “All of the perpetrators of the prior burglaries were young black males…..You know, there’s an old saying that if you plant corn, you get corn.”
      .

      “The stage was already set. It was a perfect storm,” Taaffe said. “I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working.”
      .

      “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn’t going to take it anymore,” Taaffe said of Zimmerman.

      Like

    • Exactly.

      Like

    • The reason he didn’t want to answer Trayvon’s question was because GZ was NOT there because he was worried about Trayvon’s well being! And no answer would’ve been appropriate because the truth would’ve been to tell this scared kid that he was here to kill him!

      i think you’re right that gz was stalking Trayvon for awhile, at least several minutes before he ever called NEN because he’s clearly seen on the CCV standing at the clubhouse door w.flashlight in hand!

      Like

  12. George has had problems as one can see from his postings on his 2005 MySpace page–

    “2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!! The man knows he was wrong but still got this hump, George was a bouncer at illegal underage drinking parties thus disrespecting the law.”

    … I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched…

    Like

    • This should not have been in the first quotation:

      George was a bouncer at illegal underage drinking parties thus disrespecting the law

      Like

      • @Yahtzee. That’s important, because it also demonstrates that Zimmerman gives approval to minors to violate law as long as he is served a benefit.

        Like

  13. Hi Xena, Hope I am not offensive but I have been known to lack patience regarding Zimmerman. Apologies to you before I respond to Yahtzee. I love your continuing research and commitment to Trayvon. I was in such a depression I thought all had moved on, Fred banned me way back for reasons unknown but the comments I read towards the end of my tenure there were tiring me out. It was time to fly solo and post on my own page. I took it down because of the Zimmerman annoyances. I slept through the trial after “The knock knock joke”. Then woke up for the “verdict”.

    But of late it will not go away. I believe we adopted Trayvon and were his Auntie’s. With some magical powers…Good Witches. The Charmed Ones. You have great insight into much of what happened dead on with him as the “Burglar”. I knew it from the start. But those document dumps and I mean dumps in the worst way were bizarre and much of the documents seemed ridiculous and pedestrian oddly worded like that assholes language i.e. looking about, they tend to run away briskly…who the hell talks like that.

    I am rambling and will try to refocus my post in response to Yahtzee, I noticed you made about 18 posts with some statements I find odd. You seem familiar to me did we ever comment somewhere in the last 19 months? You said Ransberg was white. He is not. I know this not from the freakish Police Report of a teenager with a spidey backpack, but because he was interviewed by a local station early on. He is black and a gentleman but white he is not.

    he has dreads and lives on Long Oak Way. I do not know if Emmanuel Burgess exists maybe it’s my “spidey sense” but it was strange he was booked with over 900 pennies. It is what I believe and I am fairly certain I can’t be swayed. You know that “Spidey Sense” it can be a bitch.
    I found your statement about the man he harassed at CarMax interesting because you said he led a comedy show with co-workers John Russo and Corey. I never saw any names of others including the Middle Eastern man but George like to call him “Achmed “from a character Jeff Dunham invented, I love “Achmed” but am partial to “Peanut”.
    Just a few more questions if you don’t mind Yahtzee…..You stated Singleton’s radio crackled during the initial interrogation she said she was in an interview….I have listened extensively to the audio tapes of Singleton and Serino’s interrogations, the night he got into that room with Doris it was the Police at the Retreat calling about the camera’s at the gate and anywhere else on the property.George seemed to have intimate knowledge that the gate camera’s were not working. Call me crazy but why would only those camera’s be nonoperational? He gave out the name Kent Taylor of Leland Management as the person to call about those pesky gate camera’s. I just wondered if you heard a different version. I look forward to your answers.

    I thought I had done thorough research, and then again my problematic “Spidey Sense” drives, urges, and motivates me to dig deeper if I hear new versions of these events. If you need any proof that George is a fucking racist bastard watch his face and demeanor as Selene Bahadoor leaves the witness stand. He is a psychopath empty void of a conscience a real hideous vessel of hate. He also is the Burglar in the Retreat. Always the glass sliding doors and he had some spidey sense when the blonde dingbat with rusty scissors claimed she was robbed so helpful he brought her a new lock for a sliding glass door hmm I would have no clue where to obtain that item.
    Thank you Xena for letting me come by and post. I fully believe the DOJ will charge him, he may not make it that far…..his behavior true psychopath may not make it out of Lake Mary. He of course would not understand the term suicide by (I refuse to say cop O’Mara called Raimondo that as an insult) Police Sniper. I call that Justice. Love ya!!

    Like

    • @Sdunn5. Good to see your fonts. Re:

      You said Ransberg was white. He is not.

      Lonnie Starr has done some research into this and is of the impression there are two Ransbergs, even to a different spelling of the last name of each.

      Re:

      I fully believe the DOJ will charge him, he may not make it that far…..his behavior true psychopath may not make it out of Lake Mary.

      You know, I have the same feeling.

      Like

    • sdunn,

      Here is what Lonnie Starr wrote:

      First off is Ransberg. Stutzman wrote that piece and I emailed her long ago, to see if she had more information on him. You know, 20 years old is pretty young to be a homeowner, yes?

      Also the Ransberg we’re interested in is the white one, not this black man. So she wrote back and told me that the white Ransberg (or burg, I could never clear up which spelling to use), lived on the cul-de-sac outside the east gate with his girlfriend, and was a visitor, not a resident or homeowner. I also noted in the paper the photo of the black Ransberg with the dreadlocks, is taken with his head down so that he could not be identified from that photo. My guess is they wanted to make sure that no resident came forward to say that they either knew him, or knew he did not live there.

      In any event Rene Stutzman succeeded in creating the confusion she probably intended.

      Like

    • sdunn,

      Here is the letter that gz’s co-worker (an Arab-American) at CarMax wrote:

      Tuesday, July 08, 2008

      To CarMax Management:

      I am concerned about my work environment which lately I feel harassed and abused by other employees led by, but not limited to, George Zimmerman. My complaint is based on a series of repetitive incidents that are making my work experience at CarMax unpleasant. My fear of being not accepted into my new work environment have kept me from formally addressing these issues but at this point I feel that these issues have grown big enough to impact my professional performance negatively and that they need to be dealt with promptly. Since I started working in CarMax Sanford, George has been dealing with me in an unprofessional manner and have mastered the art of emerging as the nice guy to others in order to make me look like the unsocial type and out of place.

      • Intentionally gave me wrong directions about how to perform my job, and then later made jokes to other employees and managers of how “stupid” I was to listen.

      • He repeatedly made comments referring to the exclusion of yellow tag employees of his group activities.

      • Pressured me to split my first floor sale with him by lying about the CarMax policy of splitting deals.

      • He makes a high school-like humor out of mispronounced or misplaced words that I say to the point that I have to carefully choose my words around him and his group.

      • He never communicated with me in a friendly manner despite my effort to do so.

      • He led a comic show, with John Russo and Cory, impersonating me in a terrorist character and referring to me as “A f—ing moron”.

      These are some of the bully activities I have been facing that led me to be concerned about my work environment. It has been painful to come to work knowing that other employees are monitoring my movement s closely to catch a little mistake that will stimulate there humor sensors.

      http://abcnews.go.com/US/letter-accuses-george-zimmerman-bullying/story?id=16659097

      Like

        • from this ABC article:

          One of George Zimmerman’s former colleagues at CarMax, where he worked in 2008, complained formally about the man who killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, alleging serial hazing that lasted for months and included pranks and ethnic jokes.

          When the salesman complained to management, Zimmerman denied the harassment.

          “The guy was so convincing when he was confronted by management to the point where I doubted my own self. I would not be surprised if he got away with it [Martin murder accusation].”

          “He’s got, like you say, a good poker face. Great poker face,” said the colleague. “That pretty much summarizes this guy’s personality. Great poker face.”

          The employee, who is an Arab-American, worked part time at the used car retailership during 2008, and rose quickly to become one of the company’s top salesmen, despite the hazing, he says.

          Like

      • two sides to a story

        Ugh, been there, done that. Working with someone as toxic as GZ takes a lot of patience. He should have been disciplined if he was not.

        Like

        • @Two sides. I think he was given a verbal reprimand. Apparently, he felt emboldened and then retaliated by complaining about the management to HR. HR got sick of his consistent complaining and that is why he was terminated.

          Like

          • two sides to a story

            Ooo, I’d forgotten he got sacked eventually – well-deserved. He doesn’t seem to learn too quickly about his toxic behavior and it must have been the norm in his household as he grew up.

            Like

            • @Two sides. Right.

              George Zimmerman demonstrates a pattern when he doesn’t get his way or when he doesn’t win favor. He complains. He did the same against the Chief of the SPD AFTER he went on a ride with an officer. Zimmerman stands as a devil to stand in judgment to condemn others. He thinks he’s perfect and answers to no one. That is the mindset he had when targeting Trayvon, following him, and killing him.

              Like

            • two sides to a story

              Yes!

              Like

            • Yep. It’s always someone else. Never him. He never mans up to anything, it is always someone else.

              Like

          • Here are some things Fogen has had said to him….

            1) “You’re Fired”
            2) “Why are you such an asshole?”
            3) “No George, wrong answer……..as usual”
            4) “Don’t touch me !!” (from most females)
            5) “What the fuck are you doing……and why?”
            6) “I’m tired of your shit dude….grow up”
            7) “Why are you such a liar?”
            8) “No George, it wasn’t your idea, it was…..”
            9) “Oh I can see you’ll never make employee of the month”
            10) “Stop playing with your pistol”

            Here are some things that will never be said……

            1) “He’ll be a great dad…..remember anyone can be a father, it takes a special man to
            be a dad”
            2) “He’s such an asset to our company, I see him going to to the top”
            3) “He really is a great neighbor, that’s for sure”
            4) “He’s truly a loving husband, it’s so obvious he dotes over his bride”
            5) “When I grow up, I wanna be just like him”
            6) “That black family ran out of gas and he got gas for them and paid for it…no strings”
            7) “He’s so creative”
            8) “He’s like a roaming welcome wagon….so friendly and all”
            9) “He volunteers for all those Church Ministries and, well, what more needs to be said”
            10) “He wouldn’t hurt a fly”

            Like

            • Here is something else that will never be said – I would love to have him watch/babysit/mentor my kids.

              Like

            • Yep……I missed the obvious.

              Like

            • @Racerrodig. Adding to things said to Zimmerman;
              Don’t forget to take your medicine.

              Like

            • I’ll add “Don’t forget……ALL, of your medicine”

              Like

            • @racerrodig. Oh yeah! LOL. Remember that photo of Zimmerman returning to jail after his bond was revoked? The woman walking in front of him carried a baggie filled with medicine bottles. Zimmerman was seeing a psychologist before he killed Trayvon and IIRC, the State has those records. Judge Nelson sealed them and would not allow them to be entered into evidence. They might contain information as to his state of mind before he killed Trayvon.

              Like

    • I should have said that Singleton’s “INTERCOM” beeped (shrilly)

      You can hear the shrill beep in Recording #1 at this link to all of the audio interviews with gz:

      http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/george-zimmermans-statements-sanford-pd-audio/

      Like

    • “… Fred banned me way back for reasons unknown….”

      You were attacking just about everyone in wholesale fashion. I remember it well and you attacked me as if I were Fogen himself and in fact, accused me of that.

      There are 2 Ransbergs. Lonnie has documented this well. One is Ransburg, the other is Ransberg. How coincidental is that.

      Like

      • @Racerrodig. I’m going to ask that you give grace to Sdunn and this is why. Let’s just say that I know an apology when I read one, and Sdunn apologized. She might not have apologized to you directly because she did not know how to contact you. I never banned Sdunn but when the situation happened on Leatherman’s, but I did use moderation options because her comments were coming from two different IP addresses.

        So, I’m asking for peace now, and grace in giving her another chance.

        Like

      • @Sdunn5 (administrator’s message)

        I respectfully ask that you read my comment to racerrodig and his response to me. Then I ask the same of you that I asked of him. Fair?

        If you feel that racer’s comment is over the line, I have no problem editing it. Please, bury the hatchet.

        Disagreeing with opinions, points in issues, and/or thinking out loud to reach a common ground (if possible) are all fine as long as it’s done respectfully. What is not okay are personal attacks.

        Can we start with a clean slate, please?

        Like

        • @racerrodig. (Adminstrator’s message)

          I’m editing so things don’t inflame. Let’s just say that you both have had the last word on this matter. I look forward to reading more ideas from both of you regarding Zimmerman’s frame of mind when he killed Trayvon.

          Like

  14. here’s some info about the Feds investigation early in the case from the guy who wrote like 2 e-books about the zimmermans. (same guy PapaZ took to Hooters for an in depth interview into the mind of an idiot racist child murdering enthusiast)
    he’s also the guy who likely taught PapaZ how to make his own money by writing the bullshit he calls a book selling for 1.99 on amazon!.

    yes, this is mostly supposition on the idiots part but there’s some names here of the cops in sanford who he claimed tried to Influence serino into charging zimmerman.. although i don’t know how hard they had to pressure him since he’s the one who initially wanted to charge him w.murder!!

    http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/10/zimmerman-persecution-survives-shutdown/

    Like

    • @shannoninmiami. Jack Cashill speaks with a White Supremacist attitude. Here’s something that he wrote from the link you provided;
      “By Monday, April 2, FBI agents were already in Florida questioning individuals in an Orwellian “parallel investigation” that focused less on Zimmerman’s actions that fateful night than on his thoughts, past and present.”

      Here’s what U.S. Attorney Wagner wrote:
      “Because establishing motive is a key aspect to proving the crime, investigations often must range far beyond the criminal act itself to locate evidence relevant to the defendant’s state of mind before and during the crime.”

      Cashill presents a false light as to what the FBI investigates, or he simply does not understand what they investigate. He is also incorrect when saying the FBI’s investigation concluded or ended last year after interviewing some of George’s acquaintances. Even O’Mara was concerned with what the feds had on Zimmerman, tried getting the file, and was told that the investigation is ongoing. The FBI will not limit their investigation to interviews of George’s acquaintances.

      How many people have lived next door to a mass murderer and thought it was a nice guy because he said “good morning” and talked about the weather? That guy in Ohio — Castro — can you imagine if his neighbors and co-workers were asked if he was a kidnapper and rapists?

      Like

      • I couldn’t make it past the part of him saying the Feds have ‘already concluded z wasn’t racist’ or whatever. this clown wrote the same shit in his idiotic booklets! But guess what? I have no idea where these ppl come up with their “Orwellian” fantasies!

        Like

        • two sides to a story

          Jack Cashill, like the whole kit and caboodle of Z supporters, promoted their lies and half-truths as “facts” to get Z off the hook. Hope the DOJ hook is better than the one that FL used.

          Like

    • two sides to a story

      Cashill is a virulent racist masquerading as a righteous Z supporter. My anti-Z comment after this article went into moderation, but the hateful, racist comments number in the hundreds.

      Like

      • @two sides.

        My anti-Z comment after this article went into moderation, …

        I’ll check. Did you happen to include more than 2 links in your comment? If not, I’ll see if I can find out why it went into moderation.

        Like

      • @Two sides. There is no comment from you in moderation. Feel free to re-post it. Maybe Word Press is having a bad day. I’m so sorry.

        Like

        • two sides to a story

          Hi Xena – I didn’t mean in moderation here – I meant at the site where Cashill’s article is. Rich irony that over 200 racist comments reside there and mine goes into moderation – LOL!

          Like

          • @Two sides. Whew! Thanks for letting me know. I thought for a minute that I would have to go into the spam queue — the filthy place for Zidiot blacklisted IP addresses. 🙂

            Like

  15. Wonderful Xena It has washed from my soul. I am blowing you a kiss and waving you a peace sign. Racer I have no problem with you, So our gracious Administrator has asked for a clean slate and it is sparkling here. I wish you only the best. Xena need not have to seperate kids acting up in a sanbox. Trayvon is my heart and my passion. As I am sure he is yours. XOXO

    Like

  16. i just watched this one for the 1st time and it has jenna’s 911 call unedited.
    one thing i picked up is you can hear the slider open at one point & the screams get even louder and clearer. it’s also curious that once the slider is open jeremy is also heard saying loud&clear
    “they’re calling police”. so it’s been my opinion that Trayvon did see Jeremy& he saw Trayvon, yet Jeremy turned his back on Trayvon and left him out there to be killed.

    Like

    • @shannoninmiami. Jeremy had a reason for going back into the house for a knife, and I don’t think it was to control Trayvon. Jeremy is scared to death of George. If I could communicate with him personally, I would recommend that he tells the feds everything he knows about George, and everything he knows about that evening.

      Like

      • two sides to a story

        There has to be some reason – some damning evidence against GZ? – that Jenna was used as a witness during trial and Jeremy was not. Jeremy saw more, therefore should be the logical choice. The only logic in using Jenna was that her call became famous because it recorded an exchange between GZ and Trayvon as well as the gunshot.

        Like

        • @Two sides.

          The only logic in using Jenna was that her call became famous because it recorded an exchange between GZ and Trayvon as well as the gunshot.

          Absolutely. What the State failed to do was concentrate on the time that Jenna’s call was logged, compared to the time that Rachel Jeantel’s call was cut-off, and the gunshot. The State would have been able to then argue that there was not enough time for everything to happen as Zimmerman alleges.

          Can’t put my figure on it, but there is something about Jenna and Sondra Osterman that is very deceptive.

          Like

          • two sides to a story

            “Can’t put my figure on it, but there is something about Jenna and Sondra Osterman that is very deceptive.”

            X’actly. They know more than they let on and still support the Z clan.

            Like

            • @Two sides.

              X’actly. They know more than they let on and still support the Z clan.

              That, and something else. Their demeanor and manners are cultic.

              Btw, O’Mara knew about Jenna’s Twitter. He jumped behind Bernie and laughed at deceiving him. I did not have a Twitter account then (just opened one for the blog in late August this year), and immediately saw that suggestions of people to follow are not under “followers.” Jenna lied.

              Like

            • two sides to a story

              Yes.

              Like

      • Jeremy’s enthusiastic, giddy, jovial statements to police and FEDs do not seem like he’s scared of gz to me xena?! if he was scared, at least after some time had gone by and he had time to think, and after gz was arrested, Jeremy could have taken the opportunity to speak to the feds and especially his OWN wife about it. but he married her AFTER the murder!? who marries someone after a situation like that if they don’t both have the same frame of mind? because apparently she’s not afraid of gz at all, she’s on twitter w.jr and zealously defending gz by committing perjury in a murder trial!

        and jon was there too. all three of them could’ve gotten together and put that asshole under the prison if they wanted to! they could’ve gotten together with all the other honest witnesses that were there too; Mary& Selma, etc.. talk about strength in numbers!

        and i think that ‘getting a knife’ story is bullshit anyway, probably a way to explain away something they thought they might’ve been caught doing- if the cops had actually investigated what those two were doing during the 911 call!

        there’s just too much collusion between jeremy, jon &jenna. (look they all start w.Js!) and i can’t find a single excuse for ANY of them. it’s bad enough that they stood back and did NOTHING to save Trayvon as he begged for help. but they cover up for him afterwards?
        maybe it would be different if they hadn’t seen/heard what they did?

        it’s just incomprehensible that outside, there’s a kid screaming for help, but their natural instinct is Not to rush out there to help him!??! and then have no remorse for it either?? i’ll never get over that. that really kills me. those adults did NOTHING and have NO SHAME for it. i can’t believe it.

        Like

        • @shannoninmiami. Not disagreeing with you. People do react differently to fear. Zimmerman walked that community with a loaded gun. He no doubt bragged about his dad who he misrepresented as a “judge,” his uncle who is a Sheriff, and his BFF who is an U.S. Air Marshall. He may have told certain HOA Board members that his dad has connections with the CIA. Who knows what names he dropped to give an impression that if he is angry at you, he will get even by using others who have influence and authority.

          As far as Jeremy and John who saw what was happening and did nothing to help Trayvon, well, let’s turn that around to Zimmerman’s story. Had they believed that Zimmerman’s life was in danger — had they believed that Zimmerman was screaming for his life — they would not have said they were calling the police and gone back inside.

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          • roderick2012

            Xena: had they believed that Zimmerman was screaming for his life — they would not have said they were calling the police and gone back inside.

            That thought crossed my mind also. How or why would anyone not go see what was occurring if you heard the screams of someone you knew.It would have been three grown men (including Piglet who had had MMA training) and Jenna against one unarmed skinny kid whom let allowed to beat their friend George to a senseless.

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            • @roderick2012.

              That thought crossed my mind also. How or why would anyone not go see what was occurring if you heard the screams of someone you knew.

              Exactly! Then we have John Good who judged what he saw to be so life-threatening that he said “Hey! Cut it out.” (snark)

              With what Zimmerman says was happening, one would think that John and Jeremy would have stayed outside and yelled for help until the entire block was out there.

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          • yeah Xena, you could be right about gz threatening ppl. he’d could do it indirectly, like the manipulating POS he is. he could say something like,’ha, if anyone ever did so-and-so to me my dad has all the connections’ etc.. or talk about how he’s gotten away with something because of his dad’s connections in the past. i can just hear him now bragging abt how important he thinks he is, intimidation. i think you even wrote a post about GZ’s emotional blackmailing ppl..

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            • @shannoninmiami. Exactly! I remember some comments about Zimmerman’s phone message for Taaffe where he mentions that Taaffe lost his son. It was year’s ago. Then he thanks Taaffe for speaking for him. Some thought it was a veiled threat. Maybe what Frank did wasn’t enough because subsequently, Taaffe’s other son ended up dead in a car crash.

              IIRC, it was in the article about Zimmerman using Neighborhood Watch as a cover-up that I wrote how he took a physically threatening posture in court as Shellie lied about the money. Funny how without talking about using code, Shellie knew he was using code and without telling her to lie, Shellie knew that he wanted her to.

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        • Hi there Shannon,
          I thought that statement was odd but it had been made so long ago mostly forgotten because I thought Jeremy is such a pussy his reaction was “hey I am doing something manly taking a knife to a gunfight” But then I thought it was weird he did not testify. And yes who gets married in the eye of that storm hanging over this murder. Witnesses who captured this horrific screaming and gunshot. Wow!
          Then as I watched Lauer look down her nose and act like a snotty bitch on the stand, I thought she may have married him to keep him from testifying. Spousal priviledge you can’t be compelled to testify against a spouse in his case was told by her you can’t testify with a different story then mine. Who knows. But I do believe he said the knife story to explain why you hear the screaming coming from a distance away to right in your porch area. And that was in support of the notion that Z said he came from Twin Trees Lane, It was odd because it is clear he was coming from (my opinion) south to north. It also blows away any possibility that his sucker punch story and head bashing shimmy would have had made Super Z having the ability to shimmy so fast on back far away to their backyard like a cut scene of Regan in the Exorcist running upside down the stairs totally possessed. Ah thank goodness for good taste they went with the 360 head spin.

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          • Jenna makes me so sick. i swear from the minute i heard her on the 911 call i got this sick feeling. she was just too nonchalant w.the dispatch. she “thinks they’re screaming help” WTF??? she THINKS?? GTFOOH!!

            you know what it sounds like to me? it sounds like she pretty much knew what was going on and just made her obligatory 911 call bc if she hadn’t everyone would wonder wtf she was doing during the really loud violent murder in her own back yard.

            she was very different than the other callers. it’s like she offered as little info abt what was going on as she possibly could but only because the damn dispatch ruined it for her because they could hear the screaming outside..

            she didn’t sound confused like the other women callers who were questioning what they heard.
            The teacher was really trying to figure out what was happening. she tried to help the dispatch hear for themselves by holding the phone to the window. she was questioning what she could do to stop it.
            Selma went outside to see for herself, she asked gz what was happening.. But Jenna was like she couldn’t be bothered. she had no curiosity, she wasn’t worried about someone (except jeremy) getting hurt.
            i’ve always believed jenna was irritated, but now it seems like its more than irritation and indifference. i now feel like her reaction seems odd in another way, that it’s different than any other of the women witness out there. does this make sense to anyone else?

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    • roderick2012

      so it’s been my opinion that Trayvon did see Jeremy& he saw Trayvon, yet Jeremy turned his back on Trayvon and left him out there to be killed.

      When Trayvon uttered “I’m begging you,” he was probably addressing Jeremy to help him because Trayvon knew by that time that Piglet was intent on killing him after Trayvon told him he didn’t know The Three Stooges.

      Like

  17. http://youtu.be/Qiub3siGrb8 here’s a good video i just saw. George Zimmerman’s lies.

    Like

    • @shannoninmiami. GREAT!!! Thanks. Watching now.

      Like

    • I have tried repeatedly to walk suspiciously and no go. It’s raining now and I tried again, sorry, nothing suspicious according to all my neighbors. I looked at houses, cars….everything. Not one person here said they had anything to call the police about.

      You lose Fogen. Maybe you should have a disclaimer that says in part…….

      “This is from the mouth of George Zimmerman and anything I say cannot be held against me because I’m a habitual liar and moron. Anything I say will be changed in the future in a damage control effort. Anything factual will be ignored and my motto is “All for one and I’m the one” In addition, it’s probably all your fault, or at least, it’s not my fault because nothing ever is my fault”

      “Oh, by the way………stand a little closer”

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      • @racerrodig. Yeah — we can see George beckoning for David Dean to come closer. He reaches into his shirt, then Wes, his friend from VA/bodyguard, touches George’s shoulder and stands there as George destroys Shellie’s iPad. I think there’s another name for people who do that when the folks are members of organized crime.

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  18. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner’s association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

    At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics” in his neighborhood watch captain role.

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    • and apparently all records of that meeting, of which ChiefLee attended, has conveniently been lost. i think it was Malisha who requested the FOIA and for some reason that info specifically was not included.

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      • @shannoninmiami. That is also what I understand. I wonder if any of that info came up during the settlement with the HOA?

        An interesting question for the feds is, why would those who supported Zimmerman and felt him not guilty, be so quick to sell their townhouses and move after he killed Trayvon? I mean, it’s a gated community. The media isn’t coming in unless someone lets them in. I’m unsure whether John Good put his house on the market, but the Manalo’s and Jeanna and Jeremy got the hell out of Dodge.

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  19. Jueseppi B.

    Reblogged this on The ObamaCrat™.

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    • Thanks, Jueseppi.

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      • Jueseppi B.

        Hope U are having a good start to your week. 😉

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        • @Jueseppi B. Thanks. It’s already going by too fast for me. Hope that you have a fabulous week. Government shutdown keeping you busy with your blog? Seems like every 5 minutes, the media is reporting something new about it.

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          • Jueseppi B.

            I actually find the talking heads on TV say the same thing hour after hour. Very boring. But thats politics. I get a chance to read other bloggers work. Hint Hint. 😉

            Like

            • LOL@Jueseppi. When I get notification of new subscribers or people who “like” a post, and if they have a blog, I try to visit, read, and at least give them a “like” so they will know I’ve returned the favor. Some of their blogs don’t have the “like” option. Right now, I’m behind in doing that. I do enjoy reading other blogs.

              I think I’m down to commenting on 4 blogs now because back around June of this year, I spread myself really thin and it came to a point where I couldn’t keep up nor catch up on the blogs I read and commented on.

              I want to find time to get back to your blog and finish reading the article about the Tea Party. Darn, I wish I had saved articles from CNN Ireports from 2008, because even before the Nov. election, people wrote there about forming the Tea Party. They were former members of PUMA and the Tea Party was their retribution for what they described as the Democratic Party “throwing Hillary under the bus.” Just after the election, some from Texas and Florida were very vocal about sabotaging the federal government. They are also followers of LaRouche. Now, that’s person I’d like to see someone write about.

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            • I wrote about him back 3 years ago when I shared a blog with a woman. Maybe I’ll do another one a series with Koch brothers and LaRoach….I Meant LaRouche

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            • @Jueseppi. LaRoach. LOL!!!

              Please, do write the series. With each new year comes new voters and old voters taking more interest in politics, so informing is very important.

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  20. Takes a jackass to know a jackass, so I guess Sanford, Florida are full of them. I guess he is the A’hole that got away…

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  21. U.S. Attorney Wagner on the greater impact of hate crimes:

    “Because they are motivated by bias, hate crimes are often intended to, and do, send a broader message of violent intolerance toward a broad class of persons. Like terrorist incidents, the “message” aspect of the offender’s motive can be profoundly threatening to people far removed from the actual scene of the crime. The fact that the victims of such crimes are selected based on characteristics such as their race or religion can cause all those in the community who share that characteristic to experience similar feelings of vulnerability and secondary victimization.

    In its impact on the community, the fear of becoming a victim of violence can be nearly as debilitating as suffering through an actual crime.

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  22. George Zimmerman’s racist mindset as he followed Trayvon is VERY is in evidence in his NEN call when he said “Fucking Coons.”

    This has impacted the African American community as seen by this photo taken at a Trayvon rally:

    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_EcXv0j8UwHYJYt0SIyNOOdH_aaR4byVnuQs67MrYRIA5NHy1

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  23. Let’s not overlook GZ’s effort to falsely attribute the word HOMIE to what he said were Trayon’s words to him.

    Twice in GZ’s FIRST interview, the interview that took place the SAME night that he killed Trayvon, GZ said that Trayvon used the word “Homie” in addressing GZ.

    February 26, 2012 Investigator Singleton’s interview with GZ:
    [audio src="https://216.58.158.174/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/audio_statement_0226_1.mp3" /]

    Timestamp 13:22

    Zimmerman: So, I was walking back through to where my car was and he jumped out from the bushes and he said, “What the F…ck’s your problem, HOMIE? And I got my cell phone out to call 911 this time.”

    Timestamp 22:30

    Singleton: And what did he say before that?
Zimmerman: Ah….
Singleton: You said he asked you like something about, he said you got a problem?
Zimmerman: He said “You got a problem, HOMIE?”

    This is proof that GZ attempted to falsely STEREOTYPE Trayvon Martin to Investigator Doris Singleton. Trayvon Martin’s generation does not use the term “Homie”.

    This represents proof along with GZ’s “f….ing c…ns” expletive on the NEN call that his killing Trayvon Martin IS a hate crime based upon racial hatred toward Black youth whom he racially stereotypes.

    GZ racially profiled and pursued Trayvon in anger.

    LLPapa in this video points out that the term “Homie” is outdated (not used by Trayvon’s generation):

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  24. My thoughts on why Z got mad when Trayvon ran shows his state of mind.
    He was looking for a fight.
    My thoughts on if Z violated Trayvon’s civil rights when he went after him are yes because
    every citizen has a civil (conduct oneself in a civil manner) to do a simple thing as go (however they choose to get there, walk, run, drive, ride a bike) to a store & go home with the expectation of safety. Also Z committed a crime when he followed Trayvon.
    Many of his supporters say its not illegal to follow someone.
    Then why are there laws for stalking ?
    The act of stalking is a terroristic type behavior, something that causes a person to feel fear or terror.
    The act Z committed caused Trayvon to feel fear at least, it was disconcerting to him, enough to cause him to tell his friend about it on the phone, to cause him to run away, & later to ASK why was he being followed.
    Z could have been lying to the dispatcher when he said he saw Trayvon run to the back gate.
    But Rachel said Trayvon told her he was going to run to the back.
    So with that in mind, Z drove to a cul de sac that was interestingly close to Trayvons’ fathers’ condo, which would indicate Z knew him or knew where he stayed. (to know where he was running to)
    Z then parked his truck & got out & followed on foot.
    Z had had an argument with his wife that night prior to him stalking & killing Trayvon & though we don’t know for sure I believe he called his friend FT.
    He called 911 to cover himself to make it appear he was doing the right thing, even though he knew what he was going to do already.
    This is evident by him changing his meeting with the police at the mailboxes to “have them call me” and also by him telling dispatch ok when dispatch told him “we don’t need you to do that”
    He had to make it appear he was doing the right thing.
    “He also said they always get away” He was trying to tell the dispatcher how he felt about them always getting away. To him it wasn’t right & something should be done about that.
    When the dispatcher didn’t follow the line of conversation he must have figured the duty was on him to do something. He took 2 flashlights & his gun loaded with one in the chamber & proceeded to get out of his truck & run to where he thought he could find Trayvon.
    These all go to mental state. His intention was to find the person & do them harm & that is what he did.
    He also had the mental state that he’d get away with it because in the Serino interview, Serino asked him what did he think the outcome of this type of situation was going to be & he said justified shooting.
    I also believe he said F ing Goons. In the FBI reports it was noted that someone asked the police if they ever discussed gang activity with Z or if he ever asked any questions about it of the police. They said no. But that doesn’t mean Z didn’t hear about gang activity on his own.
    Serino also told him during the interviews that Trayvon didn’t have the right type of clothes on.
    So even Serino recognized that Z was doing some type of profiling, but Z made a serious error in judgment.
    Also even though a lot of the residents said there were a lot of robberies in those condos where this happened, only ONE arrest was made.
    And something stinks to me about those so called burglaries. As a poster said above how did Z see these so called burglars if they always came around at night & most decent citizens are at home at night. And Z rode around the complex in his vehicle with his lights off harassing other people who lived there. Z’s claims that he was the captain of the NW are false.
    He was appointed by the people at the NW meeting to be a spokesperson & the police dept NW organizer told him to provide a list of all the neighbors who wanted to be on NW, but he never supplied a list and the police dept NW organizer told Z to pick block captains out of that list of people who wanted to be on NW.
    Later FT called the police dept NW organizer about a suspicious person, but no list of neighbors who wanted to be on NW was provided to the organizer. So my question is how did FT know to call her & why did he call her rather than the NEN line like NW is supposed to ?
    It proves Z & FT were discussing this NW program. They may even have had a secret plan for something else & were using NW as a cover.
    How do people know Z was not the one attempting the burglaries while he was out prowling around at night. He appointed himself the title of Captain when he was really only a spokesperson.
    Its all in discovery docs.

    Like

    • Aware,
      Welcome to Blackbutterfly7. Just a word about Word Press blogs. When you post long comments, their program sends those comments for moderation. I’ve also noticed that when the same person posts more than 3 long comments on the same day, that Word Press will send their comments thereafter to the black hole of spam. Get ready to laugh — I have sent myself into moderation when posting long comments. LOL!

      Feel free to break your comments up into two or three comments. You can “nest” them by moving up in the comment thread until you see the box “reply.” That also helps others in reading and responding.

      Like

      • ty I will keep this in mind.
        So sorry my comments are so long, there are so many details to this case & they’re all important. Like pieces to a puzzle

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      • “Get ready to laugh — I have sent myself into moderation when posting long comments. LOL!”

        Now that IS very funny, Xena! 🙂

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    • Aware, I noticed that you wrote:

      “I also believe he said F ing Goons.”

      In my opinion he said “Fucking Coons”. LLMPapa created this video:

      Like

      • I thought the same too at first until I read the FBI report & noticed they were asking about gangs & there was really no reason for them to be asking.
        Maybe they were trying to figure out if he said coons or goons ?
        Either way, since Goons are predominantly AA he was still profiling
        And using the coons word is just classless
        I remember hearing that word a lot when I was growing up, but it was said between me & my siblings. lol

        Like

    • Aware,
      Your mentioning “puzzle” reminded me of something posted back in April. https://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/george-zimmerman-told-us-where-he-saw-trayvon-martin-when-saying-when-i-walked-back-towards-him/

      It puts Rachel Jeantel’s testimony together with Zimmerman’s statements to the police and the debris field.

      Like

      • No doubt he’s guilty. That’s already been established.
        And one of our civil rights is equality in public places.
        Trayvon was in a public area when Z first started stalking him.
        The mailboxes, clubhouse are public areas.
        Later Trayvon started walking down the sidewalk, Z followed in his truck.
        Sidewalks are public areas.
        Trayvon then ran & ended up in between the buildings where the tenants walk their dogs.
        Still a public area.
        Was Trayvon treated equally as another might be treated while in those public areas ?
        I’d venture to say no.

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    • Many of his supporters say its not illegal to follow someone.
      Then why are there laws for stalking ?

      They do not consider intent/motivation. The law establishes whether there is a violation of law based on intent. Zimmerman tells us his intent when saying “These assholes. They always get away” and “Shit he’s running” while referring to Trayvon in the plural as f’ing coons. Even for those believing that he said “punks” it is still plural.

      Zimmerman followed on Trayvon’s heels even when he was in his truck.

      Like

      • You are so right. His intent is clear though.
        I saw this video a long time ago its the mailboxes & someone was searching with a flashlight. At first I thought it was definitely Z (even hate to say his name) but then I started thinking. TF knew an awful lot about this situation even right down to what the jury was going to decide. And why was he so invested in this ? He was also involved somewhat though I’m not sure what his role was in the NW as was Z.
        So it could have been FT searching with a flashlight.
        But then again, during the walk through the investigators asked Z if that was where he got out of his truck (at the clubhouse) and he said no real quick.
        I’ve learned through experience that usually (not always but most times) when a person answers quick like that, they are lying.

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  25. Also need to add that Z also violated Trayvon civil rights by holding him there against his will.
    It is an actual crime holding & keeping someone from leaving when they want to go.
    It’s called false imprisonment.

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  26. Wanted to add also that Trayvon was a guest of his father & Brandy in that complex.
    One of our civil rights is to be treated equally with regards to housing.
    Housing includes allowed to rent but also allowed to use the public areas as anyone else.
    As a guest of a tenant there, the tenants rights extended to Trayvon.
    He had the same rights Brandy & her son had, he had the right to use all the public areas & he had the right to play in the yard if he wanted to. As long as he behaved himself in a civil manner he was where he had a right to be.
    Z wouldn’t have followed anyone else of another ethnicity the way he followed Trayvon.
    Therefore Z violated Trayvons’ civil rights.

    Like

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