George Zimmerman Looked In The Mirror ….

and he saw John Orr and adopted most of Orr’s allegations to claim self-defense.

George M. Zimmerman

John Orr

Both are charged with 2nd degree murder.

 Both killed an unarmed individual.

On October 2, 2011, John Orr killed Jon Wayne Joseph of Naples, FL, and claimed self-defense under Florida’s stand your ground law. Joseph was unarmed.

On March 6, 2012, during an hour and a half on the stand at his immunity hearing, Orr testified that after a brief verbal exchange, Joseph;

  1. got on a bicycle and rammed him from behind; and
  2. straddled him, pinning him down; and
  3. bashed his head into the ground three times; and
  4. tried gouging his eyes; and
  5. threatened to kill him.

Orr testified that Joseph had total control of the situation, and “Every time I tried to do something, he countered. He had me pinned down. It was very hard to breathe even.”

When interviewed after the killing of Joseph, Orr told Naples police that he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and takes several prescription medications.

Orr is represented by attorney Mike McDonnell.  Collier Circuit Judge Frank Baker presided over the hearing.

District 20 Medical Examiner Marta Coburn and crime scene investigator Sara Vazquez said blood evidence from the scene and Orr’s clothing suggest Orr wasn’t being forcefully straddled when he stabbed Joseph.  Investigator Vazquez said that blood on Orr’s clothing didn’t have any debris in it, suggesting he wasn’t pinned to the ground.  She also said that the blood was largely on Orr’s left side, with blood found in the stitching of the armpit of Orr’s shirt, suggesting that Orr was holding Joseph’s head in a headlock while stabbing him.

Assistant State’s Attorney Andreas Gardiner argued the blood evidence and Orr’s lack of wounds didn’t give him the right to use deadly force against an unarmed Joseph.  The State argued Stand Your Ground didn’t apply because Orr used excessive force.

“Does a reasonably prudent, cautious person then proceed to go ahead and stab this individual 75 times? That’s the problem that the state has with this entire case,” Gardiner said.

At the immunity hearing, Assistant State’s Attorney Gardiner replayed an interview Orr gave to police in the hours after the stabbing.  Gardiner said details in Orr’s police interview didn’t match his testimony.  Among the inconsistencies were that Orr told police he was head butted and had his eyes gouged, but did not testify to neither in the immunity hearing.

“Those inconsistencies, combined with the blood analysis, refuted Orr’s “Stand Your Ground” claim, Gardiner said.

Along with the physical evidence not matching Orr’s version of events, the State also argued that they were able to present many variable possibilities.

The Honorable Judge Frank Baker denied Orr’s motion for immunity from second-degree murder charges under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which allows the use of deadly force in some self-defense situations.  Defense attorneys say they will appeal this decision.  Orr remains in jail on second degree murder charges.



Blackbutterfly7  August 29, 2012

  1. Another fine piece of work. I’ll share this one too.


  2. it is inconceivable to me how anyone could believe Zimmerman’s version of events vs the physical evidence and the inconsistencies of his stories. To believe Zimmerman one has to ignore or purposefully not even be interested in seeking the truth.


  3. The good thing is that the prosecutors in Orr’s case didn’t sit on their hands and allow Orr’s claims of self-defense to go unchallenged. Dead people do talk. The prosecutors in GZ’s case are not sitting on their hands either. Trayvon shall talk. He will talk through forensic evidence, photos of the crime scene, etc. That will actually be the only voice with credibility because GZ has changed his story too many times, and might just change it again during his immunity hearing.


    • towerflower

      Because GZ was seeking a degree in criminal justice, I have to wonder if this case was discussed in any of his classes. This happened just a few months prior to TM’s shooting. I would love to see if the prosecution interviewed the professor to see what was discussed.

      GZ also claimed to not know about Florida’s SYG law, he gives out a little laugh and smiles when he says this on Hannity……a tell in itself. I can’t believe that this never came up in his classes also the State of Florida give a person who receives the license, several phamplets concerning the various gun laws of the state including SYG.


      • I have to wonder if this case was discussed in any of his classes.

        It wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t read about the Orr case in the newspapers. IMO, the claims pattern each other a bit too much for it to be coincidence. Just like when this case came to media attention, there was no doubt some media “legal experts” saying that Orr had a good chance for immunity from prosecution. Well, that boat has now sailed.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Here’s a little something I wrote to a “Jorge” on another blog, feel free to copy and paste it, with alterations if needed, on other sites:

      Boy have you got things mixed up. It was the non emergency number call (NEN) where, what gz calls flashlight banging is heard. But the flashlight worked alright at the station for Serino, so the knocking sound may very well have been something else. The question being asked is, could he have left that blood stain on Jon’s garage door frame when he knocked there? No matter, it’s inconsequential.

      What is consequential is, if, as gz claims, he did want to go back to his truck, he could have gotten there before Trayvon could have caught up with him. He would have been there before the NEN call finished. Obviously, if he was attacked when and where he claims, he would still have been on the phone with the NEN dispatcher. AND, Trayvon would still have been on the phone with DD. There is no way around this fact.

      Thus, he had to have gone somewhere else and done something else. DD’s testimony places them both where the tactical flashlight and phone were dropped. Witness 11’s 911 call also places them there. That location is some 45 feet south of the ‘T’, in an area where gz claims not to have ever gone at all.

      At the end of DD’s call we hear gz in a superior position, ignoring a request that he identify himself and issuing a challenging “What are you doing around here?” That is not what a person under lethal assault would say. Nor would the person doing the attacking say “Get off… get off!” which is what Trayvon is heard saying.

      DD’s call drops and within 70 seconds witness 11 calls 911. Since it takes time to hear something that would make you want to call 911, then decide to do it, and then seconds more to do it, that time takes away from the 70 seconds that elapsed before 911 connected.

      Next, on the 911 call Trayvon is heard screaming in pain. While gz is heard asking questions of Trayvon, clearly he is in the superior position, while Trayvon is in extreme distress. We know now that gz had self defense and martial arts training at Kokocapelli’s fighting gym, which does not cater to weightlifting or bodybuilding, they have none of that kind of equipment there. The prosecution and the defense both know whether he completed his training, most likely he had, because he dreamed of becoming a police officer, which is why he paid 600 dollars for the course in the first place.

      Wrist controls are very pain producing holds, and it’s likely that this is the cause of Trayvon’s distress. When gz grabbed him he fell to the ground, as it is what people usually do when physically restrained. gz went to the ground with him and they rolled until gz was once again in the superior position, where he then applied the wrist lock causing Trayvon to scream. This activity lasted only 45 seconds, until gz was able to draw his weapon and take aim, while restraining Trayvon with his left hand. Trayvon saw the weapon and yelled “Stop!” Signalling total submission in the hopes that the gunman would not shoot, but gz did not give him any mercy, he fired his weapon straight through Trayvon’s heart, while two pieces of his cheap hollow point ammunition, fragmented and tore through Trayvon’s right lung.

      For sure gz had minor injuries and blood on him, but the autopsy report found no dna or other trace foreign to Trayvon on his hands. His hands were in pristine condition and could not have been used to attack gz.

      gz needs yet another story if he’s to convince jurors that he should go free. Unfortunately for him, he has told so many differing stories about what happened, and none of them match the evidence or explain any of it. He has also lied to the court about is finances, thus his defense team cannot allow him to take the stand and face cross examination. But, unless he takes the stand, he will not be able to provide any evidence of self defense, since no one saw what he claims but him.

      I hope this is of some help to you in sorting out matters. Think what you want, but there is no evidence of anything else.



  4. Thanks for providing this. Too bad GZ isn’t a bit more like Orr, that is IN JAIL.


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