Posted by Xena
Posted on 01/27/2015, in Cases, Cops Gone Wild, Jessica Hernandez and tagged Denver, Jessie Hernandez, killed, stolen vehicle. Bookmark the permalink. 46 Comments.
No one wants an officer to be run over, but come on, did she brush his leg with the car while trying to escape or is it broken? They are so trigger happy. Like the story of the girl who walked in to the police station. No one ever reported the girl lunged at the officers with a knife or made any threatening moves.. I’m so sick of officers doing things like this. There has to be a better way.
mindyme62…..with the girl who walked into the police station, they did say she lunged at the officers and from what I read they listed the death as a suicide……death by cop. She had posted some cryptic messages on her FB page about an afterlife.
I’m interested in what her guardians have to say once they are allowed to view the video
I imagine the autopsy showing the location and angle of the bullets will be telling. If the bullets entered the front of her body or head, that would indicate that the officers shot while they felt their lives were in danger. If the bullets entered the side of her body or head, that would indicate that they shot after the threat to their lives had passed.
What possesses an officer to handcuff a dead or fatally injured victim?
It is common practice in law enforcement to handcuff a shooting victim…….just because a person is shot doesn’t mean they don’t pose a danger anymore. I can’t see how they would know a person is fatally injured unless it was a catastrophic injury like MB’s head wounds.
Towerflower, the girl was not armed. They dragged her limp body out of the car and handcuffed her.
They don’t know that until they search her and I read one of the reports in which they said she was searched after that when they said they flipped her over while checking her.
There are things that law enforcement doesn’t know about the suspect until after the suspect is dead. There are things that the suspect doesn’t know while alive, and we never get that side of the story. Stealing a vehicle is wrong. No doubt about that. Driving it towards the officer was wrong. Did she think she stepped on the brake? We don’t know. I won’t make excuses for Jessie.
I think I’m going to vomit.
To continue from my comment above,
If it turns out that Jessie Ramirez was shot in the side of her head or body, should the question be asked: Is a police officer justified to shoot an individual who has just tried to run him over with a car but is no longer a threat to the officer? (Or can the officer say, “I did not know whether or not the driver would put the car in reverse and come back at me?”)
A related question: Is a police officer ever justified to shoot an individual who is running away when that individual appears to be unarmed and is no longer a threat to the officer?
We often see such instances in movies:
In the movie clip here, the character played by Jimmy Steward (in “It’s a Wonderful Life”) punches a police officer and then runs away with the policeman firing his gun at him:
Timestamp 0:57 to 1:10 of this video clip:
I know that when I watched this movie over the years, I unfortunately never focused on this scene nor did I ask if the policeman was justified in shooting at that character.
Now I wonder how much such scenes in movies involving police shooting at individuals have subtly influenced the public to accept these kinds of police shootings. It is a sad thought to consider that the general public is subconsciously conditioned by such instances in movies to accept potentially unjustified shootings.
Correction: Jessie Hernandez
Now I wonder how much such scenes in movies involving police shooting at individuals have subtly influenced the public to accept these kinds of police shootings.
IMHO, the public does not accept these kinds of police shootings. There is a small population that accepts it based on their profiling, or prejudices, of victims. There is also a small segment that accepts it based on giving law enforcement superiority over citizens that requires citizens to obey commands, in spite of the situation.
For example, I think of Ethan Saylor. He was Down Syndrome and his personal assistant asked the officers to wait because his mom was on her way. She also told them that he didn’t like being touched. But, they wanted Ethan out of the theater and they had the power and authority to force Ethan to behave like they wanted, in spite of being Down Syndrome. They placed him a choke hold and broke his larynx.
This goes back to the rule that says police officers have authority to do whatever is necessary to arrest a suspect. The suspect has no rights. They can be in the washroom in the middle of a stream, but if the cops say “Get on the floor” the “suspect” has no human rights and his/her death is blamed on him/her disobeying commands.
I’ve said many times — people are not robots.
Excellent comment, Xena.
There are too many different types of people in this country for law enforcement to communicate with everyone in the same manner and expect immediate understanding and obedience. I cringe thinking of a hard of hearing or deaf person being confronted by the police. I know of a woman with Cerebral Palsy who was accused of being drunk because she was not walking straight. They threw her to the ground so hard it loosened a tooth.
My heart aches for her and others mistreated so.
You are raising my awareness, Xena, of what is wrong, of what needs to be changed.
All we need to do is ask ourselves how many times we heard someone, but didn’t know if they were talking to us?
How many times have we reacted to strangers talking to us, like we do with family and friends? What I mean by that is, when we are in the midst of doing something and our name is called a second time. We generally respond by telling the person what we were in the midst of doing. Students do that in school all the time.
I’m going to wait for more information on this one. If she used the car as a weapon to try and hit the officer then they would have been justified in the shooting. At the time the officers didn’t know the age or sex of the driver only that it was a stolen vehicle and it was trying to run over one of them. I’m sorry but if you aim the car at an officer and drive toward them you have made your intentions known, that you will do anything to escape.
This happened at 6:30 am on a Monday morning behind a home that one of the occupants lived at….another 16 yr old girl. The mother, Bobbie Diaz, gave a statement to the press talking about how she was in bed and heard the shooting…..but I wonder if she knew her 16 yr old daughter was not at home.
Some say why didn’t police use a taser or rubber bullets instead……sorry but that is no match for a vehicle that weighs in at a ton.
My question is are we to expect law enforcement to just step aside with every crime so that no one ever gets shot especially when they try to take the life of an officer.
I’m sorry but if you aim the car at an officer and drive toward them you have made your intentions known, that you will do anything to escape.
There’s a photo of the car, and if I find it again, I’ll post it. It looks as if the car ran into a porch or back of a building.
Injured leg vs. death. I don’t know.
It looked like the car ended up in a fence.
I’m going to see if this works in the comment box. If not, I’ll work to make it smaller. Yes, the car ended up hood-first into a fence.
What if the cop was a 1/2 second later in a jump out of the way (if he did jump out of the way) he might have easily ended up dead and not with just a leg injury.
We don’t yet know if Jessie was driving towards the officer when he shot, or if she already hit his leg, then he shot. I hear you, but there’s something about protecting oneself vs. retribution for what already happened and if there is no further anticipation of danger. Anticipation of danger does not always require that the person shoots first.
A Colorado news station got an interview with another one of the girls in the car.
The girl’s statement does not match police version but if you listen to her story it also doesn’t make sense…..one minute she says that Jessie tried to take off when the police arrived speeding up with lights on, then she says that they approached on Jessie’s side and shot her through the driver’s window and then she says the cop was pinned between the car and the fence and he was hit after she was shot. Think about that…..how did the cop get from the side to being in front of the car and getting pinned? The officer suffered a broken leg.
The sequence of the event is not necessarily a contradiction. The cop could have been standing on the side of the car and when he shot, the car could have veered to where he was standing and injured his leg. Hopefully, more details will come out as to where Jessie was shot. There were also two cops that fired so needs to be ballistic testing.
The problem is she says the officer ended up being pinned between the car and the fence……that puts the officer in front of the car and not to the side. She doesn’t mention him being pinned against the building but says the fence. I say it doesn’t make sense because if it was true that she tried to take off when the cops arrived speeding with their lights on then they wouldn’t have had time to get out of the car then she says they approached Jessie on the driver’s side window and just shot…..but I thought she was trying to take off when they first drove up. I just find this girl’s story a little contradicting in what she remembers.
I don’t think she tried to take off until the first officer approached the vehicle, which is from his version of the story. Once she ran into that fence, there was no opportunity for her to do anything with the vehicle other than try to back up, and the photo does not appear to show that she made that effort.
Xena, Because the level of hate and distrust toward the police is so high, I seldom post any comments on a discussion like this, however in this case I will make a comment… If the officer had simply jumped out of the way allowing the fleeing subject leave the scene, what would your reaction be toward the officer had the car hit a group of children on their way to school in the process? Would you be willing, if you were the police officer to take that risk? It has happened in the past and the police took a lot of heat at that time. The real problem with playing Sunday morning quarterback on all police actions is that most of us would be willing to do the job to begin with and have no real concept of what it entails.
That’s the thing — I don’t generally go into speculation of what could have happened. If I did that, I could say that the officer could have killed innocent passengers in the vehicle. As another what if, what if that happened in the UK where law enforcement does not carry guns? How do those officers handle risky situations and still come out alive?
Another thing — when people choose a career, they should consider the risks involved. If the only way of addressing risks is to kill, well, I would certainly not want that job.
You might notice that my heart is directed towards victims and showing compassion for their families and for life. That’s not cop-bashing. It’s appreciating life.
Xena, some don’t come out alive…..one only has to look at the recent Paris magazine shootings in which 2 officers lost their lives….they were unarmed. In some of the video you also see an arriving police car goes rapidly in reverse trying to escape the gunfire coming at them. The Paris officers who first responded were not armed.
A police officer never knows what or how a situation will turn out….look at New Hope, Minnesota this past Monday in which a man opened fire on officers during a swearing in ceremony for new officers. 2 officers were shot before other police present returned fire and yes, the gunman was killed. Who would think that someone would open fire and shoot at police at a city council meeting where new officers were being sworn in? Or will the next traffic stop you make result in the loss of your life….after all it was only for a minor traffic ticket. Or domestic violence calls when the victim suddenly will turn on the officer when trying to arrest their abuser? I wouldn’t want the job either, knowing a wrong decision could end either my life or an innocent one.
Some jobs do take a special person…..while we condemn the aftermath of a shooting who are the first ones we call in the first place? (I’m not condoning all police shootings). Some jobs have risks only to the employee…..like a firefighter, who will rush into a burning building to rescue a person without thinking of the danger to his own life. I had an easy job compared to them…..while my job required being 100% correct in my decisions at all times and a mistake could result in massive loss of life I was protected meaning my life was never in danger. These jobs all require split second decisions and a belief in making the correct decision when the time comes. Are there some who should never be a police officer….absolutely! One of the things I learned in my career is that there is no test on who will make a good controller and who just doesn’t have that something extra that makes a good controller. I think this might be the same with cops and sometimes we have to rely on departments weeding out the poor officers early on and making sure they don’t get hired on at another agency like with the officer involved with Tamir Rice.
“I think this might be the same with cops and sometimes we have to rely on departments weeding out the poor officers early on and making sure they don’t get hired on at another agency like with the officer involved with Tamir Rice.”
I agree with you, Towerflower.
I pray that police departments will become even more vigilant in weeding out the poor
cops. Such action will increase morale within the police department and within the community that they serve and protect.
I understand what you’re saying. It’s like those who volunteer to join the military. They understand that they might be placed in life and death situations. They volunteer for that career. They understand the risks. It’s a shame that some do lose their lives in doing their jobs and my heart goes out to their families.
Good afternoon Mindyme!
“You might notice that my heart is directed towards victims and showing compassion for their families and for life. That’s not cop-bashing. It’s appreciating life.”
Yahtzeebutterfly. Thanks for your agreement and seeing the truth in my motivation. I don’t sanction killing and while some support self-defense, I don’t believe that protecting oneself requires killing.
I don’t care if the victim is judged to have been evil or good, they still have people who loved them.
It’s possible to do that too Xena. Most of us feel that way too.
Sorry, but I forgot to address a misconception.
Because the level of hate and distrust toward the police is so high
There is no level of hate towards the police on this blog. Distrust? Yes. Who is responsible for that distrust?
I agree that if an individual attempts to ram his/her vehicle into police officers, they are justified to shoot the driver in order to save their lives.
If, in fact, Jessie was intentionally ramming her car at the officers, she was “asking for it.”
Mindyme….correct the girl in the police station was ruled a homicide….but it appears to me to be suicide by cop.
The police had other options. They didn’t have to kill this child. They are supposed to be the adults in these situations. They are supposed to know how to deal with things like this
Here is a photo of the car showing a reflection of a brick wall in the driver’s window.
The window does not seem to have any bullet holes in it unless the bit of window next to its front frame which seems to show a segment of the back wooden fence represents a bullet hole. (It appears as a small vertical tan line just next to the front frame of the driver’s window)
(Administrator’s note. I checked the photo in effort to discover why it did not post. It is larger than the text box for blog articles and Word Press apparently has a cut-off for photos when they exceed the size of the text box.)
Okay, you can find the photo in this article:
Body Cameras should be mandatory.. Why no dash cam either I wonder..
“A passenger in the car, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of safety concerns, has disputed the official account, saying officers came up on the car from behind and fired four times into the driver’s side window.”
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