Gun violence in America
This is so very sad. Guns were invented to kill. Once that bullet is fired, it can’t be called back.
5-year-old boy finds gun, shoots baby brother in head
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Posted on 01/23/2015, in Conceal Carry & SYG, Uncategorized and tagged 5 year old, 9 month old, Elmo, kills, Missouri. Bookmark the permalink. 34 Comments.
We Hold These Truths To Be Self-Evident 
Perhaps our nation will at some time in the future realize that guns are not the answer to preventing crime and instead to a large degree does just the opposite… Now that gun deaths have exceeded deaths in auto accidents, it would seem that our leaders would wish to develop a plan to reduce those deaths? Of course when you consider the amount of slush funds our politicians enjoy receiving from the NRA it can not happen! If we have one citizen die from the use of a gun that is too many…
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Mothman,
AMEN!
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Crusty….I know we disagree but can you please show me a link that shows gun deaths exceeded auto accidents…..I’ve been looking since your comment but have only found articles in which it was projected to pass and not that it did.
The last CDC study was done in 2011 and gun deaths were still behind auto accidents, drug deaths, accidental poisoning. Also half of the gun deaths were from suicide.
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Towerflower, Late the other night I was on one of the Govt. sites and they gave a preliminary figure that said that the gun deaths had finally exceeded the auto deaths. I just looked and while I intended to book mark it because I was going to bring that to your attention the other day, but I guess in a brain dead moment, I did not get it bookmarked. It did say that the auto deaths had dropped because of fewer miles driven, and gun deaths had increased slightly. One thing that did stick in my feeble brain was that suicide by gun had gone up, I suppose that is due to the economy?
Actually, we don’t totally disagree on guns, we just differ on how to reduce the loss of life due to them. However, I do respect your opinion…
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Thank you, I also respect yours and others….that is why I wanted to see where you got the numbers from so I could educate myself. The CDC does track deaths but their last big report was from 2011.
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The other day I stumbled upon this photo essay series in the Chicago Tribune that has disturbed me greatly. There are a lot of questions that this series has brought out, that really should cause each and every one of us to cry out for help for our fellow citizens. There is one part that has a short video, in which the mothers of two teens try to impress their teen age boys about the depth of the problem. These killings have got to stop, our future is being slaughtered in the street, yet we as a nation ignore the problem because it is not our own children that are dying, it is our neighbors… Could your child be the next to die?
http://apps.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-scene-of-the-crime-lawndale-gallery-20140907/story/chi-scene-of-the-crime-lawndale-part-1-20140907
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Mothman,
I went to the Chicago tribune site and read the story. I am familiar with that area. It is a part of Chicago where, for decades, the police would not come when called. People exercised “street justice.”
It’s an area where a citizen can call the police about seeing a person with a gun, and be told to call back if the gun is fired AND the person is still there. It’s an area where the fire department will not make reports of arson because insurance companies will cancel policies.
In no way am I trying to justify gun violence. It’s that I know that when people realize that law enforcement does not care, not only do they not trust the police, but violence becomes “natural.”
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Xena, Why won’t the police go into the area? Did they wake up one morning and suddenly decide that they no longer wanted to go there? There must be more to that story than I am hearing. I did notice in the film that the mothers of the two boys were not only blaming parents but the police as well. I must ask if it is the responsibility of the government to raise the child or the parents? Is it the fault of the government when the parent does not do their job in raising the child? This is not just an issue in this area, but the entire nation as well. Have we reached the point in our society where the school system is required to teach right and wrong and the police are expected to be surrogate parents as well? What has happened to personal responsibility as it applies to parents? I know those are a lot of questions, but when do we as individuals in this nation start to take responsibility for our own problems and quit relying on the government to solve them for us? The solution for the deaths of our children starts at home not in the offices of our government…
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Mothman,
In the article about the tarnished history of the police forces in America, (if I remember correctly), I cited a professional source regarding the history of the police force in Chicago. It’s not that they “no longer wanted to go” into certain areas — they never did go into certain areas. If people wanted to report a crime, they went to the cop-shop and it went no further than the piece of paper. There is generational history that began when the majority of the Chicago police department was Irish and at a time when Chicago had diverse neighborhoods prior to the 1960’s.
To say it another way, there is historical, generational distrust between citizens in Chicago and the police department. There used to be a saying that unless you wanted to go to jail, don’t call the police if you are a witness or victim, because they will not look for the suspect but arrest you instead.
How can parents teach their children right from wrong, such as not using profanity at the drop of a hat, when the cops do it in public all the time?
I didn’t get from the photo layout that the parents were blaming the police and expecting cops to raise their children. If I must speculate, parents blame the police because they did nothing to stop gang and drug activity in that section of the city.
Well, you have certainly incorporated parenting into crime and government. LOL! I would say just the opposite, i.e., the government needs to get out of parenting. Dr. Spock was right about somethings, and wrong about other things. Today, a pet owner can use a more forceful tone of voice to train a dog, and grab the dog’s collar to re-direct it, than a parent can without being investigated for child abuse.
Today, children are exposed to many things and influences outside of their home. Take for instance bullying. It can happen on the bus, in school, at sporting events. Parents are not always around to protect and teach their children when children are actually where they should be — in school. Is the school system responsible for teaching children right from wrong? Yes they are, when wrong happens on school property. Have you read the stories about parents who went to school officials about bullying only to have nothing done about it?
There was a time when a parent would tell their children that if someone hits them, to hit them back. That generally ended in the winner of the fight leaving the other kid alone. Now, doing that can end up with the child suspended from school and possible juvenile criminal charges. No — I’m not promoting violence but simply stating how children resolved problems like children before schools and government got involved.
With parents working, more children are at home without adult supervision in the cable TV, internet and video game age. Children are not robots, and when they get with other children, they think and act like children.
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Xena, Sorry about the delay in responding, please forgive me? LOL you said that I was putting the raising of our nations children into the hands of our government? My position is far from that and I do hold parents accountable for the raising of their children. I will repeat, it is not the job of schools or police to teach morals (right & wrong) to the children of this nation! The use of excuses such as the govt. will arrest me if I discipline my child is simply a cop out, there are too may other parents of children in this nation that have managed to raise their children with good morals and respect for others, to accept that as the cause of some abdicating their responsibilities as parents.
You bring up the point that many children are home without adult supervision, while the parents work, I agree with that statement to a point. In the area of Chicago where the article I linked covers, the problem is not that the parents are absent while they work, and if statistics are even remotely accurate, the parents are not only not living together, neither is working, so one could only surmise that the parents are absent from the home for other reasons than making a living. We have a serious problem not just in that area or similar areas but in mainstream America with parents expecting the Government and other entities to raise their children. Again, I will say, it is not the Governments job to raise the children of this nation, it is the parents. To absolve the parents from their responsibility to their children is not only poor reasoning, but feeds the problem. A child without proper raising is like a car without a steering wheel, eventually it will crash…
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Mothman,
No need to apologize. There was no delay. Life is more than writing comments. 🙂
No, what I said was that you incorporated parenting into crime and government. What I meant is that you put the subjects together.
I agree about the police, but not the schools, and my reason for saying that is because schools have their own culture. They also have their own rules and policies.
We can see if we are on the same or different pages by answering a question — what type of discipline are we talking about, and of what age or age range?
I still know people who live in that area, and they are working, homeowners. I would not prejudicially paint all of the residents the same. The area of the photo shoot that you linked to does not have residential housing. Pulaski is a business road. The people were there because of a party hosted by a business. That in and of itself tells us that what the photos show and report were of the party people.
Who is absolving parents from responsibility to their children? Those were not children in the photo shoot. They were adults.
How many parents have raised children who never gave them a problem, and then turned out to be a John Wayne Gacy?
Are you aware that there are some schools that do not allow students to bring their books home? Teachers make and distribute copies of papers for the kids to take home and study. That means that even a child who is capable of fast learning is hindered because they are limited to whatever the teacher hands out and can go no further reading their class books.
Talk about children being respectful? What about young adults respecting older adults? There is a current, other post about cyberharassers. One who claims to be college educated and a professional mocks me as an “old widow.” She did it in comments she submitted to this blog and now does it on Twitter. Was she raised correctly by her parents? Was she disciplined as a child and taught good morals? No need to answer. I bring her up because she also makes the argument that Blacks killed by cops were not raised correctly by their parents and “black on black crime” is more of a problem (although there is an arrest), than children accidentally killing other children with guns.
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Xena, Happy Sunday Morning!
“”We can see if we are on the same or different pages by answering a question — what type of discipline are we talking about, and of what age or age range?””
I can only answer that question as a single parent that raised two children with many struggles. When they were very young, discipline consisted mostly of time outs and sitting in a corner. As they got older, with holding some privileges seemed to work pretty well along with an added work load around the house. I can not recall any times it was necessary to use physical force to encourage them to do right. Possibly I had two exceptionally good children, but at the time I often did not feel that I did.
“”I agree about the police, but not the schools, and my reason for saying that is because schools have their own culture. They also have their own rules and policies.””
Wow, on this I disagree, while perhaps in the area you are located that is true, but if my children had attended a school that did not conform to my expectations about how my children would be educated, they would not have been in that school. It was my job as a parent to teach them the difference between right and wrong, and not some stranger who had no real vested interest in their future. Perhaps, from the way you describe todays schools, that is a major part in the downfall of our society. Our children are the future of this nation, and if we as parents throw away the right and responsibility of raising our children into productive members of society, the we as a nation deserve the rewards that we reap…
“”I still know people who live in that area, and they are working, homeowners. I would not prejudicially paint all of the residents the same. “”
Actually, there was more than one photo essay in that link, and I believe that the one that I actually linked was the last. If my comment was received as being prejudiced against anyone, then it was a failure on my part to communicate my thought properly, and was not my intent. Once again, I can only come back to my own experience as a single parent, forced to work and raise two children. Raising a child is not only hard, it is really a full time job, and it has to take priority over every thing else in life. If one chooses to have a child, then you must be ready to accept changes in your own life, little things that most people take for granted, such as being able to go out with your friends, little luxury items that you feel entitled to and etc. While during the period that you are raising the child it is quite easy to become upset because your friend are able to go and do things while you are at home with your children, a time comes when you are able to stand back and admire the person you child has become. IMO when a parent places his/her wants ahead of the needs of their child, they not only have failed the child, but them selves as well.
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Hey Mothman!
I admire your being a single parent and living to tell about it.
Re: Schools teaching right from wrong. I remember years ago of a book titled, “All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten.” Teaching children right from wrong also applies to different settings. Imagine those young minds who have only been exposed to people who love them, going into a classroom filled with strangers. They have to learn right from wrong in that setting too. Unfortunately, too often children learn what is wrong by wrong done to them. Children are reactionary. Their first inclination is to do to others what is done to them. Teachers do have responsibility to tell their students right from wrong IN SCHOOL.
Even adults have to learn right from wrong in employment settings. Employers have handbooks, policies and procedures. Life is a learning experience.
Do parents have responsibility to teach their children right from wrong? Most certainly, but even parents cannot anticipate all the situations their children might experience. We find adult children who turn to their parents for advice because of situations. Life is a learning experience.
Re: discipline. Most of that depends on the child. Children are individuals. I never used extra errands or work as punishment because I didn’t want my son to think that work is punishment. About the only form of punishment that worked on an astrologically stubborn child was to keep him from going outside to play and talk, talk, and more talk so he would understand that what he did was not allowed.
Employers even have a rough time teaching some employees right from wrong. This nation has passed laws because of that.
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This tragedy is so heartbreaking. I am filled with sadness not only for the loss of a precious baby’s life but also for the 5 year old brother whose life will never be the same again and who will grow up troubled knowing that he had killed his baby brother. I am also angry because this tragedy could have been prevented had the parents been responsible gun owners.
We live in a nation where all of the lobbying money seems to be in the hands of those who demand their rights as stated in the Second Amendment. Sadly, there seems to be no lobbying money in the hands of those who demand a child’s right to a gun-safe environment.
If parents choose to keep LOADED guns within the reach of children (not locking up guns and bullets SEPARATELY), have they not KNOWINGLY put their children in danger?
Who advocates for our nation’s children? Why does not the NRA with all of its money not have a lobbying group advocating for children against such parents.
Children have rights, too. Why is there no automatic punishment for parents who violate children’s rights when they don’t lock up their guns and bullets separately out of the reach of their children??
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Yahtzee,
One of the newspapers reported that the mother was actually visiting to leave her children with their grandfather while she went away for military training. If I remember correctly, it was for her two weeks reserve stint. It was the grandfather’s house, and he said that the gun was in a case behind some rifles in his bedroom, and the door was closed and locked. He did not know that the gun was loaded. He was not home when the incident happened.
If the NRA became involved with children, it would be to teach them how to use guns. As Gil Scott Heron sang back in the 80’s, “Everybody’s got a pistol.”
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from the song:
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Some states do have laws that punish parents if a child finds a gun and brandishes that gun or kills someone or people. These laws like others are selectively enforced.
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In Memphis, a 13-year old shot and killed his 10-year old sister. He was placed with the Tennessee Dept. of Children Services until he is 19. His mom has depression and paranoid schizophrenia. She said that the teen got one of two guns from the garbage after she had thrown them away.
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That is just so sad.
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yahtzee…..Quite a few states have laws that hold the gun owner responsible when a child gets their hands on a gun (Florida has one). Some choose not to prosecute, feeling that they have suffered enough.
Please keep in mind that not every gun owner is a NRA member, in fact I bet the majority of gun owners have never taken a gun safety course. Part of the training for gun safety is telling the person that the gun should be locked away or have a trigger lock on it and the gun and ammo should be kept in different areas. This is done not only for the safety of children but to also keep the gun out of other unwanted hands.
The NRA also has a gun safety program called Eddie Eagle, this teaches a child what to do when they encounter a firearm.
1. Stop
2. Don’t touch.
3. Leave the room/area.
4. Tell an adult.
Once again it takes a parent to get the child this training. I agree with you there are far too many irresponsible gun owners out there. When I teach firearm training I also remind them on how many unloaded guns kill people…..I will get strange looks and comments how an unloaded gun can’t kill. I then remind them that the most common comment after an accidental shooting is “I thought it was unloaded.” That in itself is also another violation of gun safety in which you treat every gun as if it is loaded. Right now though it takes training to begin at home.
Yes this was another senseless loss of life and compounded even further because it involved 2 children.
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Thanks so much, towerflower, for providing me with this info.
I am so glad you are with us here and that you share all that you do! 🙂
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“At least one nearby resident told KCTV she believes the shooting could have been easily prevented.”
duh, ya think!! Omg, how many more…
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Michigan; A 16-year old shot and killed his 20-year brother. He said that he thought the gun was unloaded.
http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2014/12/blackman_township_accidental_s.html
Philadelphia; 2-year old kills accidentally shoots and kills his 11-year old sister.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/11-Year-Old-Girl-Shot-Killed-Inside-Home-254033111.html
The list goes on and on and it has happened across America. Some of the families need to come out and address the nation to let us know the results upon their families, and maybe help other families who have guns think about protecting their children from guns in the house — and in purses — and in glove compartments — and at shooting ranges.
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The words ‘playing with’ should never be in the same sentence with ‘a 357’.
Honestly though, I think everyone is so sure things like this could NEVER happen to them, even if the families who have suffered these tragedies were to address the nation on how their families were affected, folks still wouldn’t listen. And how sad is that?
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Mindyme,
You’re so right about “playing with.” Remember when people were accidentally killed when hunting? For the longest, some folks thought that only happened to Hillbillies hunting in the woods. Then it became popular for people to hunt for pleasure rather than food, and those accidental deaths gained attention. Hunters began wearing bright-colored clothing.
Every parent who has a gun in the house, or who takes or allows their children to go a house that has a gun, should take a long, hard look at their kids and ask if their lives matter?
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Sad as it is, this is never going to end. At least in NJ, gun law violations are taken seriously. Even when a gun is not brandished, seen, loaded, or sitting in the open people go to jail. I signed a petition a few years ago about a man who was moving out of his house because of marital problems. He was a legal gun owner. His mother in law, the primary source of the problems, saw him put his locked gun case under the back seat of his pick up truck and the ammo box in the console. NJ law say they must be in separate parts of the vehicle and since he did not have a cap on his truck, he did what he though was good enough.
Nobody but his mother in law saw where he put the guns and ammo. She called the State Police and simply said what she saw and gave a description of his truck and where he was going.
He’s still in prison. Unfairly in my opinion, but the law is specific on gun transportation. I believe we also have one of the, if not the lowest gun murder rates other than possibly Newark and Camden, and even Camden is at a long time low now.
Where my wife works, a patient dropped off 5 boxes or hollow point ammo to his buddy who works with my wife. He’s a loose cannon and a gun nut. He has made veiled threats to fellow employes in the past. My wife is the manager at this place but he scares her from time to time and her supervisor had stated if my wife, or anyone had gotten pictures of the ammo boxes in the lunch room where he left them in plain sight for 4 or so hours, the co. would have sent one of the big wheels would have arrived with the police, he’d have been arrested then fired.
Her co. has a 0 tolerance on guns in the workplace. He admits to everyone he keeps a loaded pistol under his car seat and carries it with him most places. In NJ it is impossible to get a carry permit. I keep saying he’s going to hurt someone…….and this is typically how it starts.
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oh YUCK.. Gawd I wish someone would have gotten a picture of that ammo!
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Man assaulted by vigilante at Florida Walmart
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.
Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html?bcmt=1421980839125-69510679-d772-4c05-a94b-89e215c13b9a_00002b000000000000000000000000-57adc5b9-cb4a-4016-a3e7-b5b953c716cc&bcmt_s=u#mediacommentsugc_container
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Roderick,
Thanks for posting about the situation. I had read about it, and scrodriguez also brought it to my attention, but I’ve had other pressing things to do and hadn’t gotten the time to write about it. Thanks so much for making a record. Here’s the video. What I find disgusting is that two other men would PHYSICALLY involve themselves in ASSUMING that the grandfather had to be the bad guy. That is actual profiling.
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I wish this would have shown the police showing up and arresting the kook who did this.
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That would be a hoot had they included that part of the video. Maybe it will be released later.
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The video is a GREAT summary of the Kendrick Johnson case. It’s not gun violence, but corruption to cover-up a murder.
https://twitter.com/AnonCrips/status/555572428756090880
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Georgia Law Enforcement, pretty much says it all
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Mindyme,
It was a botched investigation that the locals did. I’m hoping that the DOJ in Georgia is impartial and will eventually ferret out enough information and evidence.
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