Question For Today

What would you be afraid of if you wore a bullet proof vest?

 

the-bulletsafe-bulletproof-vest-45

Posted on 12/09/2014, in Cops Gone Wild, Potpourri and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 72 Comments.

  1. yeseventhistoowillpass

    I don’t need a bullet proof vest to feel safe:)

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  2. Good question Xena. Personally, I’d be concerned that my head would become the automatic target. That’s always a possibility when one becomes an officer – whether it’s random or intentional. But I don’t think officers are concerned. Their first response is to shoot…..unarmed citizens.

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    • Pilcherje, I actually have many answers to the question, and my first answer was that I’d be afraid of my protecting my head — so best to shoot all of the birds flying overhead before they can poop on it. That’s more dangerous than an unarmed person going in their waistband.

      Like

      • I like Juan……one of the things I say all the time is “Ya can’t hurt steel…….other than that old age rust”

        “……..an unarmed person going in their waistband.”

        This and the word thug seems to be the new lingo for cops and racists in general.

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        • yahtzeebutterfly

          Hey racer, 🙂

          I have started rewriting some seasonal songs to reflect this season of protesting.

          Here are 2 that I have done so far:

          to tune of “Jingle Bells”

          Marching through the snow
          For an unarmed man slain.
          To chokehold we say NO!
          Chanting all the way.
          Yells from marchers ring
          Demanding justice right(ing).
          How sad the need to chide and sing
          Of a slaying wrong tonight!

          Oh, Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter!
          Cops slay too many!
          Oh, how sad it is to chide
          ‘Bout a slaying wrong tonight.

          to tune of “Caroling, Caroling”

          Protesting, marching, now we seek
          

Freedom bells to be ringing.


          Chanting, Chanting thru the snow


          Warning bells are ringing.

          


Mark ye well the words we chant


          Justice tidings now we seek.
          

Ding dong, ding dong
          

Protest bells are ringing!

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        • Racer,

          “……..an unarmed person going in their waistband.”

          This and the word thug seems to be the new lingo for cops and racists in general.

          Let’s not forget failure to follow instructions. The cop who killed Tamir gave him less than 2 seconds to hear, comprehend, and obey.

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  3. I love your background wallpaper… you’re cool!

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  4. yahtzeebutterfly

    Excellent question, Xena, at a time when at least one protester from Ferguson has tweeted out that she has bought a bullet proof vest; at a time when some parents have been considering buying one for their school-age children for protection against possible gun shootings; at a time when shoppers witness open-carry gun nuts at stores; at a time when we are witnessing thousands and thousands of people walking around carrying concealed guns; at a time when we are witnessing militarized law enforcement officers wearing gas masks and bullet proof vests as they confront protesters; and at a time when it seems to be standard equipment for U.S. soldiers in wars.

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  5. Xena, I was just thinking about that a few days ago. The police are protected, much more protected, than anyone who would shoot at them.

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  6. LOVE the Wallpaper!

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  7. yahtzeebutterfly

    LOL! —->

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  8. Yes I would still be afraid, while they protect the main part of the chest….there have been a few who died because they took a shot to the side (near the armpit), then there are the head shots, groin shots, etc………

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    • Towerflower,
      For sure, if law enforcement is walking into unknown conditions or an ambush, it would be a concern that they can be shot in the head, the armpit, the legs, etc. Now, let’s think about it when they are facing the suspect. Oh — here — remember the guy at the gas station that the cop approached because he wasn’t wearing his seat belt? And remember that the cop asked for the guy’s driver’s license and when he leaned in the car, the cop fired and even when the man moved away from the car, the cop continued shooting, wounding the man in the leg?

      Okay — that’s a good case to consider. Let’s presume that the cop was wearing a bullet proof vest. A guy leans into his car. The cop thinks he’s going for a gun. Was it necessary for the cop to shoot first before seeing a gun? Could the cop have covered himself behind the vehicle and ordered the man to put his hands up before shooting at him?

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      • In the gas station situation, the driver was clearly complying with LE orders and he went to get his wallet for his driver’s license…….I know that action was taken against the officer who shot the driver and I believe he was charged.

        Police walk such a fine line, many are killed in routine traffic stops. They never truly know what they will encounter……is it going to be a routine stop or will the person pull a gun to avoid arrest–knowing they have a warrant that will be discovered. There was a female deputy killed earlier in the year in Central Florida after a traffic stop. I’m not saying that all cops are good, there are some who are clearly trigger happy and then use the “he lunged at me, he reached into his pocket, he made a sudden move, etc.”

        I support the need for body cameras with audio on all police, it would protect not only the public but also the police. Because I do have a family member that is in law enforcement we have talked about several of the stories in the news……they also agree that the gas station one was a bad shooting and hearing about these stories I know that I would never make a move until I told the cop what I was doing……”Officer my registration is in my glove compartment, I need to get into that.” I’ve educated my son to do the same and to keep his hands on the steering wheel and to let the cop know where things are……Officer my driver’s license is in my back pocket, I have to reach back there.” While this may seem extreme to some to have to do, I look at it as a way to keep us safe.

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        • towerflower,
          The job of law enforcement is a job where nothing is “routine.” People are different. People react to things differently. There are “bad guys” out there. However, unless there is a direct threat, I would like for LE to first ask themselves, “What would I do if I didn’t have a gun.” Well, that question applies to citizens also who conceal carry.

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        • Wow, yeah. I definitely don’t like the idea of cops making me feel like a criminal suspect when i’m pulled over for being an airhead and not making a complete stop or for an expired tag cuz I couldn’t afford to pay it that minute! i just want to take my punishment if i get caught. and I don’t feel like I’d want my son to feel like that either. seriously. in my mind cops are there to give me a legit ticket if I deserve it. even when I was “legally” bad and had a bit of crippy (really good pot) I don’t mind the cops who know me from the neighborhood to randomly pull me over and make me empty it on the side of the road and smash it so I wouldn’t try to come back and get it. I don’t expect them to think I’m armed and dangerous and shoot me for whining about wasting very expensive weed!

          cops are not better then me, they’re just allowed to cost me money and maybe put a little fear in me or make me learn a lesson. but they owe me respect as much as anyone owes them respect for being them. I don’t believe it’s their job to make ppl bow down to their authority. I don’t expect my son to bow down to anyone either. just be polite and take his ticket or whatever too. what’s the big deal? everyone isn’t an armed robber so everyone shouldn’t be treated like one. I don’t want to sit there and say my DL is in my purse i’m gonna place my hand in there to retrieve it..etc. that’s just fuckin crazy to me and unnecessary and sets the wrong example that everyone is a possible cop killer. ya know?

          this is obviously why I’m so pissed off about these police shootings of regular unarmed ppl. I don’t believe cops should even have the right to ride by some young guys and yell out the window to get the fuck on the side walk. what kind of cop does that? not the kind I want talking to my kid.

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  9. yahtzeebutterfly

    A protestor wearing a visible bullet proof jacket might draw police attention to himself/herself. Becoming the focus of police in a “bad mood” might make him/her a target for unjust arrest, tear gassing, or rubber bullet/bean bag shooting.

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  10. crustyolemothman

    Here is another shooting of an unarmed man in Florida…Of course there is not body cam in use.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-unarmed-black-man-shot-by-white-cop-in-stolen-car-case/

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    • Mothman,
      I read about that. Witnesses are saying that both men had their hands up. Of course, because the case involves a stolen car, it is another case where killing a car thieve will be presented as ridding America of a burden on society. I think that horse thieves used to be hung but don’t think that car theft carries the death penalty.

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  11. yahtzeebutterfly

    How can this be? So wrong! —->

    Rebelutionary Z retweeted
    Free Thought Project @TFTPROJECT · 2h 2 hours ago
    Illinois Just Made it a Felony for Its Citizens to Record the Police and the Media is Silent

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/illinois-felony-citizens-record-police-media-silent/#A0pWhEuxMmJWKhTi.99

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    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Xena,

      Does this mean that citizens in IL cannot take videos of police mistreating people in public?

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      • http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1342&GAID=12&GA=98&DocTypeID=SB&LegID=71864&SessionID=85

        What is reported on Free Thought is not an honest representation of the Bill.

        The first important note to make is that the Bill is about eavesdropping. Eavesdropping is the recording of a private conversation without all participants knowing and consenting to the recording.

        It has always (during my life-time at least) been illegal for people to record others in Illinois over the telephone without consent. Current law forbids recording the eavesdropping of law enforcement, state’s attorneys, and judges while they are conducting official business. The Bill expands on the use of listening devices to record PRIVATE conversations unless by consent of a State’s Attorney or Attorney General in an active investigation.

        In other words, if someone is looking to get another person arrested for allegedly committing a crime, they cannot record their conversations, then take them to the State’s attorney to file a charge based on information they obtained by eavesdropping.

        In Illinois, statutes define terms used in the law. The subject Bill defines “surreptitious”. It also ONLY applies to “private” conservations. The Bill makes reference to current statute, 720 ILCS 5/14-1, which provides definitions.

        From the Bill:

        Provides that a person commits eavesdropping when he or she knowingly and intentionally: (1) uses an eavesdropping device, in a surreptitious manner, for the purpose of overhearing, transmitting, or recording all or part of a private conversation to which he or she is not a party unless he or she does so with the consent of all the parties to the conversation;

        The Bill has an exception for recording law enforcement.

        Provides exceptions. In the exception from an eavesdropping violation that provides with prior request to and verbal approval of the State’s Attorney of the county in which the conversation is anticipated to occur, recording or listening with the aid of an eavesdropping device to a conversation in which a law enforcement officer, or any person acting at the direction of a law enforcement officer, is a party to the conversation and has consented to the conversation being intercepted or recorded in the course of an investigation of a qualified offense, removes verbal consent by the State’s Attorney and changes the sunset date of the exemption from January 1, 2015 to January 1, 2018.

        (emphasis added)

        Since the Bill amends the Department of Juvenile Justice Mortality Review Team Act, I suspect that legislatures had in mind that it provides penalties for those who record private conversations of kids and then use them in a malicious manner. How many children have committed suicide because someone secretly records them and then threatens to post the recording on Facebook or other social media to humiliate them?

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        • yahtzeebutterfly

          Thank you SO very much for explaining this to me, Xena! I totally didn’t grasp what it was all about.

          My gosh. You are correct about FreeThough misrepresenting the Bill!

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        • Awesome! Thanks so much for this!!

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          • Mindy,
            Twitter is a fast track of info. When I first saw the tweet to that article, I went to the Illinois General Assembly site and checked the Bill. That takes time, and it takes time to see what other statutes are referenced in the Bill. I had done that before Yahtzeebutterfly posted about it and asked the question, so it didn’t take long for me to go back and get the pertinent info.

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      • By the way, there are a lot of re-tweets of that article making their way around Twitter. Re-tweeting is so fast and easy and people are fast to jump on the bandwagon.

        Here’s a report done by the John Marshall Law School that addresses Illinois law and eavesdropping, and how eavesdropping has been attempted to use in family cases involving custody.

        http://library.jmls.edu/pdf/ir/lr/jmlr12/28_12JMarshallJPrac&Proc537%281978-1979%29.pdf

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      • Yahtzeebutterfly,
        The Bill pertains to privacy and consent with certain exceptions. We need to leave this alone until and unless several lawyers give their interpretation of the Bill.

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  12. Myself. Wearing a bulletproof vest can be the sign of a paranoid mind.

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  13. butterflydreamer2

    I remember when working in call centers we had to advise people we called that “This call may be monitored or recorded for quality purposes.” If they advised us they did not want the call recorded, we had to call them back on a line that was not recorded. I know here in Calif, you have to notify the other person you are recording them.

    Remember Roorda, he was fired for misconduct, which included recording a conversation with the chief of police and 2 other employees without their knowledge, and tried the use that recording against them.

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    • Butterflydreamer,
      Yes. That is the law in many states. I don’t see what the Free Thought headline reports in the Bill. It’s about privacy and having redress for eavesdropping and not video taping cops in public.

      Like

  14. Very well stated because White Supremacists are trying to draw an either or line. Right now, their propaganda is that if you don’t support Darren Wilson, it means that you hate cops.

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  15. yahtzeebutterfly

    This new video Eric Garner and Michael Brown Tribute – “Feel The Pain” (I think) captures the agony being experienced by the Black community.

    It captures all of the emotion I have been feeling about the treatment Blacks have been receiving from so many in law enforcement. My heart is so sick over this and leads me to pray Eric Garner’s words “THIS STOPS TODAY!”


    Published on Dec 8, 2014

    Like

  16. yahtzeebutterfly

    I was just thinking of John Lewis and the beatings he endured as a Freedom Rider and as a marcher crossing the bridge in Selma.

    And so, I checked out his Twitter page and found this tweet of his:

    John Lewis @repjohnlewis · Dec 9
    You must not hate. The way of peace, the way of love is a better way.

    Like

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Not another hashtag#?!

      When will it stop?? I was just listening to this video, Peni.

      The Black community has endured so much. When, oh when, will all of this stop?!

      Liked by 1 person

      • peni4yothot

        Powerful vid! TY.

        I disagree w/Obama when he said “its better”. I say its different but far from better. It’s the same principles cosmetically dressed/perfumed up to appear better.
        White supremacy has no need/use for people of color.
        Did you hear about the hacked emails in Hollywood, what they thought about Obama? They wondered if he liked movies; 12 yrs Slave, Butler any black pictures.
        Smh.

        Like

        • LOL@Mindyme. The Bill that Free Thought links to is 48 pages. Okay — too much to read and search for the acts and stuff that it refers to, I went back to the Free Thought article and since it quotes Justin Amash, I decided to look him up. He’s a Tea Party Republican from the State of Michigan. Need we say more about his opinions? 🙂 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Amash

          Liked by 1 person

        • Peni,

          It’s the same principles cosmetically dressed/perfumed up to appear better.

          Absolutely! Some lawyers are now commenting/noticing the number of civil rights complaints that are not allowed to go to trial because of requirements established by the judiciary, interpreted by the judiciary, and judged by the judiciary. What some folks don’t understand is that once those requirements to prove a civil rights discrimination case are established, they are carried forth to sexual harassment, gender, and sexual orientation cases as well. Soon, civil rights laws and particularly in the work place, will be moot by judicial nullification.

          Well — aren’t we seeing grand jury nullification now as well?

          My opinion? A certain section of America became really, really mad, when the system was not persuasive enough to make a bi-racial man believe that he could never be president of the United States.

          Liked by 1 person

          • peni4yothot

            “My opinion? A certain section of America became really, really mad, when the system was not persuasive enough to make a bi-racial man believe that he could never be president of the United States”.

            Yep, btw; have you read or heard anything about the Sony hacker leaks? Proof in the pudding; some emails re: Obama/racial discussion snarl remarks.

            Like

            • Peni,
              I read about the Sony email hack. There’s a segment of America that never wants another person of color to think they can become president, much less actually campaign and win election. The bullies have shown citizens that if a minority dares to think of following in Obama’s footsteps, that they had better have the backbone and stamina hold up against the attacks. Within that segment are people with authority to reduce the population of minorities by killing and reduce the future of success by arresting. They are giving minorities a future outlook at succeeding as much as Hitler gave the Jews a future outlook of living.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Wow, that’s mad. I concur.

              Like the certain segment who destroyed the neighbors mule because he was one mule more than what he had and was able to work the fields faster, whom btw was willing to share the mule w/neighbor.

              Like

            • Peni, you have a way of expressing serious things with humor and making me smile. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

  17. yahtzeebutterfly

    Harriet Blair Rowan ‏@HattieRowan 6m6 minutes ago
    VIDEO: Hundreds of Berkeley high school students marching to @UCBerkeley campus #blacklivesmatter #berkeleyprotests:

    Published on Dec 11, 2014
    On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 a few hundred students from Berkeley High marched from their school toward the UC Berkeley campus at around 3pm chanting “peaceful protest” and “I can’t breathe.” Video taken at Channing and Telegraph.

    Like

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Google search with these words to see video:

      “Youtube Berkeley High School Students March in Protest #BlackLivesMatter”

      Like

  18. Dreamer9177

    I would be afraid of a society that even suggested that a bullet proof vest would make me safer as a member of that society.

    Like

  19. yahtzeebutterfly

    If you do a google search for this hashtag… whitecoats4blacklives….you will find tweets with many photos of medical students from different medical schools across the country who are taking part in the protest movement.

    Like

  20. yahtzeebutterfly

    deray mckesson retweeted

    I can’t breathe. #EricGarner ”

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4dYq_ACAAA5wvA.jpg:large

    Like

  21. peni4yothot

    Whoot, whoo…..love the bright Christmas border! (the kid in me….in awe) the kitty’s are cute on the other one.

    Like

  22. Its becoming illegal to wear body armor for citizens but not for police….H. R. 5344: RESPONSIBLE BODY ARMOR POSSESSION ACT, VIOLATION GETS YOU 10 YEARS IN PRISON

    http://www.truthandaction.org/h-r-5344-responsible-body-armor-possession-act-violation-gets-10-years-prison/2/

    Like

    • Lady, that’s because LE thinks that a citizen wearing body armor plans on committing a crime, while their body armor is to protect them from citizens committing crimes — but they shoot first anyway.

      Liked by 1 person

  23. My mother has always told me this… if you go somewhere where you need a gun, don’t go. To me, that is the problem is everyone needs a gun. I believe the constitution of the united states (yes, I said it in lowercase because how can I respect a nation that does not respect themselves) we have the right to bear arms is meant for home protection, not to walk around posing as cops or to give us false hopes that we can just shoot others dead so they cannot testify.

    Now, back to this issue. Police wear protective vests to help SERVE the community. What police are doing is killing the community and while wearing protective equipment, how is it possible for them to fear their lives with an unarmed person? What about the tazers they are equipped with?

    I don’t like to see a life lost. But when I heard about the two police officers that were killed, I had mixed feelings. The feelings of sorrow for their families, but the feeling of karma because another family get to experience what it is like to loose a live for no reason.

    Like

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