John Orr Found Guilty of 2nd Degree Murder

In August 2012, we reported on the John Orr case in Florida.

John Orr Charged with 2nd degree murder

John Orr


On October 2, 2011, John Orr killed 67-year old Jon Wayne Joseph of Naples, FL, and claimed self-defense under Florida’s stand your ground law. Joseph was unarmed.

On March 6, 2012, during an hour and a half on the stand at his immunity hearing, Orr testified that after a brief verbal exchange, Joseph;



  1. got on a bicycle and rammed him from behind; and
  2. straddled him, pinning him down; and
  3. bashed his head into the ground three times; and
  4. tried gouging his eyes; and
  5. threatened to kill him.

John Orr’s self-defense claims in October 2011 appeared to be patterned by George Zimmerman as his reason for killing unarmed 17-year old Trayvon Martin in February 2012. Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon came out of the darkness, hit him in the nose and thereafter, he stumbled about 40 feet before falling. Zimmerman also claimed that Trayvon straddled him, pinning him down, bashed his head on the sidewalk, smothered him, and threatened to kill him. A jury of six women acquitted Zimmerman.

John Orr however, wasn’t as fortunate.

Collier Circuit Judge Frank Baker denied Orr’s petition for immunity under Florida’s stand your ground law. Judge Ramiro Manalich presided over John Orr’s trial which took place in May of this year. Jurors deliberated for about three hours and returned a guilty verdict for second degree murder.

During closing arguments, prosecutors stated that Orr’s account differs from the evidence. Assistant State Attorney Andreas Gardiner spoke to the jury about Joseph’s 75 stab wounds, which he said demonstrated Orr “killed for the sake of killing, not self-defense.” Gardiner also noted that blood spatter and other physical evidence didn’t match Orr’s description of the stabbing.

Orr, who is currently 39 years old, faces life in prison. His sentencing has been deferred.

Posted on 11/08/2014, in Conceal Carry & SYG and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 50 Comments.

  1. I can’t believe he thought he would get away with this.. even though stranger things have happened in Florida, with self defense pleas, as we all know

    • Mindyme,
      The prosecution presented and focused on debris and blood splatter evidence. IMHO, rather than prosecutors in GZ’s case focusing on “he said,” they should should have focused more on Pollock’s testimony that GZ could not have taken that shot while on his back, and also on the DNA evidence showing that blood other than GZ’s and Trayvon’s was on GZ’s jacket. Moreso, they should have never allowed Juror B37 on the jury.

      • So many think that they can do just what GZ did and get away with just plain out murder because they WANT to.
        Because of the jury mishandling GZ’s case be seen by another jury,
        It was just wrong and she should probably do time in prison also.

        • Lolypop,
          Just around the time that Zimmerman killed Trayvon, Orr was going for his stand your ground immunity hearing. Zimmerman’s story patterned that of Orr’s in so many ways that I actually think Zimmerman practiced it in preparation for killing the “assholes” who he thought always got away.

          • You’re right Xena, I thought Dunn’s was a whole lot like GZ’s.
            Kept repeating he feared for his lfe, which we know is total BS.
            They were both in their vehicles.
            GZ actually just wanted to murder Trayvon.
            You can hear it in his voice.
            That wasn’t the voice of fear.
            That was a voice like I want to kill himm before the police get here.

            The only diffence so far is that GZ got to run out of court a free man.
            He left pretty quick, for him to keep saying he get’s death threats.
            That’s also BS.
            They really had better do something with him. He IS a threat to society.

            Who really IS the asshole that always get’s away!!!

            • Every ‘dog’ has his day lolypop. We have to keep believing he’ll bully the wrong person one day, and get what’s coming to him.

            • I believe you’re right mindy.
              He loves the media and cameras and he’s the type of person that believes the more the people see him the better. Doesn’t matter what the circumstances are, just so people don’t forget him.
              I don’t know much about Frank Taffe’s and what’s happening, but I believe someway they will get what they deserved and hope it’s soon.

      • So many things the State could have focused on, and done differently. I’m finding it hard to get my hopes up with the Grand Jury

  2. ….and another one bites the dust….and another bites, and another one bites, and another one bites the dust.


    • Racer,
      Some juries get it right. The movie popcorn case is suppose to start trial in March. We’ll see if justice is served again.

      • Let me make a prediction on that one. Reeves has seen the last of popcorn in a movie theater. No extra butter or NonPareils…..nope, no Peanut Chews and Coke watching a flick.

        The Judge originally denied bail and when he did get bail, he’s restricted to his house save for Dr. visits, Church and grocery shopping and his bail is higher than Fogen’s was.

        I doubt thrown popcorn will suffice as a self defense claim…….

        • Oh I hope so.. it’s unimaginable he’ll be found not guilty.

        • Racer,
          If prosecutors give jurors info of Reeves’ mindset, he can kiss the self-defense claim good-bye. He was determined to control his surroundings, even in a public place.

  3. Reblogged this on It Is What It Is and commented:
    Justice served!

  4. yahtzeebutterfly

    Verdict was in May 2014, but he still has not been sentenced. Seems like a long delay in sentencing.

    • Orr’s attorney filed motion for a mistrial. It has something to do with a witness coming forth during jury deliberations. However, the defense did not do anything to let the court know so I doubt that the judge will grant a mistrial. The defense has also filed other motions and papering the court is what is delaying sentencing.

  5. Another George Zimmerman wannabe. Justice was served. He thought he could claim SD and get away with murder! Rot in prison!

  6. crustyolemothman

    Only in Florida could some one stab another human 75 times and claim self defense…. It has to be something in the water…

    • Mothman,
      It’s the easy way — kill the only other witness, and say it’s the deceased fault.

    • Come on Mothman. Let’s be fair and not generalize for example, saying that only in Michigan can someone grab their shotgun, open their locked door, shoot a person in the face then claim they feared for their life and it was self-defense. 🙂

  7. It is tiring to sometimes to see these lunatics attempt to look sane. I am glad to see not all juries, not all prosecutors for that matter are as bad as those in the Zimmerman trial.

    • Valentine. I agree. Not all jurors use biases and not all prosecutors get distracted by the side-show. Sadly, Zimmerman’s case was a test run for Corey and Guy who went about trying Dunn differently — they didn’t present Dunn’s story for him by way of his police interviews. They forced Dunn to the witness stand to give his side of the story and be cross-examined. Can we imagine had that happened in Zimmerman’s case? His true colors would have come out just as they did at his bond hearing.

      • That’s the main thing that saved his arse, him not testifying.

        • sidewinder50

          I so agree but also believe he was never going to testify and the prosecution knew it. Somehow……

  8. I always wondered if this case was ever mentioned by Z’s professors in his classes. There were too many similiarities in the excuses.

    • Towerflower, I’ve wondered the same. Or maybe George and Mark Osterman sat around that talked about it.

  9. OT: Information

    Ferguson National Response Network: List of planned responses around the country to the Grand Jury announcement.

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Thanks, Peni.

      I am praying for Michael Brown’s loved ones and for the Ferguson community.

      • peni4yothot

        Hi Yahtzee,
        I am praying too. The way LE has been stock piling weapons and convoys of militarized equipment gradually making it’s way to Ferguson; makes one wonder what the heck are those officials thinking.

        Just listened to some of the recordings from August when several protestors were trapped/forced into neighborhoods to run away from attack by LE. They were scared/fear for their lives. I began crying, this is 2014 in Ameri*a; what they heck.

        I don’t believe Ferguson PD will handle this properly at all.

        • yahtzeebutterfly

          “Just listened to some of the recordings from August when several protestors were trapped/forced into neighborhoods to run away from attack by LE. They were scared/fear for their lives. I began crying, this is 2014 in Ameri*a; what they heck.”

          Peni, I know that was so scary for me to watch. Hopefully, lessons have been learned, and the police will act more wisely this time around. Praying…….

    • crustyolemothman

      Perhaps it is articles like the one that I will link that causes them to feel the need to have a quick response team ready? While the article makes some valid points, I question the wisdom of totally destroying our nation, but that is not my choice to make and those that feel aggrieved will take the action they feel is right for them, regardless of the consequences.

      • peni4yothot

        Interesting read. Predictable reaction based on this article throughout history.

        Have you seen what happened in Mexico, they’ve burned the Governor’s mansion IIRC. Police corruption there as well.

        Thanks crusty!

      • yahtzeebutterfly


        The article you linked sounds as if it were written by the White gun nuts who used such viewpoints to push for more and more guns. It is the gun crazies (like Bundy and his followers) who want to egg on conflict so that they can “play” with their guns.

        Remember when the White gun militia-types gathered in Sanford predicting there would be a riot when Al Sharpton and others led a demonstration (@March or April 2012) demanding justice for Trayvon and that gz be charged? Well, the White gun agitators were wrong…it was a peaceful demonstration.

        Personally (from my reading of the Ferguson protester tweets and from watching live streaming out of Ferguson), I do not think that is what the Ferguson protestors are about. They have had many meetings and conferences about how to bring about change from voting to increase Black representation, to citizens’ advisory boards overseeing police actions, to education in protest methods, etc.

        Many seeking justice for Michael Brown are trying to keep things calm and are advising the police not to do things in the manner that they did in August.
        The following excerpt is from this link:

        Michael McPhearson, a co-chair of the Don’t Shoot Coalition, said he worries that if police use menacing equipment it will fuel more anger and violence, as it did during the protests immediately following the shooting. He said the response then was “over-the-top, dangerous and put people’s lives in danger.”

        “There is going to be agitation and demonstration​. It’s just a matter of what kind,” he said. “We aren’t trying to quiet people’s anger. We are just trying to direct it in a positive direction.”

        Also this from the same article:

        Demonstrators like Elzie have met in churches and homes to plot strategies to divert people from violent protests to safe houses where they can get food and water, medical treatment and mental health counseling. Elzie, of St. Louis, one of the most vocal and visible protesters, has met with police in an effort to designate contacts in the police department so protest organizers can reach someone if protesters and officers clash.

        In addition, I have watched demonstrators become upset at a demonstrator in the crowd who threw liquid from his soda cup on a passing car. This tells me that the demonstrators want to bring about change through peaceful, but strong-voiced, protesting.

        IMHO, peaceful tactics are the most productive in bringing about change and bringing sympathetic support to the cause.

        I like these Beatles lyrics which were performed during the Vietnam protest era:

        You say you want a revolution.
        Well, you know,
        We all want to change the world.
        You tell me that it’s evolution.
        Well, you know,
        We all want to change the world.

        But when you talk about destruction,
        Don’t you know that you can count me out.

        You say you got a real solution.
        Well, you know
        We’d all love to see the plan.
        You ask me for a contribution.
        Well, you know
        We’re all doing what we can.

        But if you want money for people with minds that hate,
        All I can tell you is brother you have to wait.

        • yahtzeebutterfly

          Shaun King @ShaunKing · 16h 16 hours ago
          Never stop dreaming. Imagination is the key to hope. Hope is what fuels your internal flame when your external reality is beating you down.

          Three consistently best ways to outshine your haters? It’s not going tit for tat. Instead, outwork, outsmart, and outlast them. You’ll win.

        • I didn’t realize my speakers were turned up high when this song started! It certainly wakes ya up!

        • crustyolemothman


          “The article you linked sounds as if it were written by the White gun nuts who used such viewpoints to push for more and more guns. It is the gun crazies (like Bundy and his followers) who want to egg on conflict so that they can “play” with their guns.”

          After your comment about this article, I went back to the site where it was published and looked around. After doing this, I would have to respectfully disagree with your statement. I can find no “gun nutz” bias in any of the articles that I looked at there. Like I said in my original comment, while I do not necessarily agree with the authors opinions, I fail to see that in any way he was being disingenuous in the way he presented his thoughts.

          Hopefully your opinion that the protestors will all be peaceful and none of them will create a hostile environment will come to pass…

          • yahtzeebutterfly

            Glad to hear that, crustyolemothman… he is just a historian-type. I find his alarmist agenda unnecessary in the case of the Ferguson protestors whom I see as simply exercising their civil right to speak out and march peacefully.

  10. chuquestaquenumber1

    Orr probably thought because Zman and Ralph Wald got acquitted ,he could also. The Zimmerman acquittal did set a precedent. A person that that clearly wasn’t engaging in self defense,but said so and got off is the template. Wald, Wafer,Dunn,Orr,Hendrix and others believe they could murder someone and get no punishment. Now Hendrix did get off for killing Westbrook. Westbrook’s family should pursue civil rights charges,considering Westbrook was a senior citizen and disabled.Conley’s family should also pursue civil rights charges against Wald.There’s the movie theatre shooting case to look out for.

    • Chuquest,
      And, this tells us that when cases get before a jury, the results depend on the jurors; whether they are willing to take the evidence and apply it to law, or use their biases to decide.

      I have to go back and check, but I don’t think that Westbrook’s killing was even taken before a grand jury. Westbrook was no threat whatsoever. Hendrix used what I call the “Scarlett O’Hara” defense. It was much like O’Mara presented — that Zimmerman was protecting women at home alone who were caused no physical harm.

  11. yahtzeebutterfly

    07:34AM, NOVEMBER 10, 2014
    FERGUSON, MO (KTVI)- Two Hollywood stars are in Saint Louis Monday morning for meetings about the Ferguson protests.

    Harry Belafonte and Danny Glover arrived Sunday night from Los Angeles. The two will be meeting with Civil Rights leader and Congressman John Lewis.

    Belafonte recently received an honorary Oscar Award for his humanitarian work on Saturday night.

    For years, Glover has been an outspoken Civil Rights advocate.

  12. Jury selection began today in another Florida stand your ground case.

    Anita Smithey killed her estranged husband in 2010. She was denied immunity. Judge Kenneth Lester, who presided over Zimmerman’s case through his bond hearing, began voir dire of potential jurors this morning hoping to seat six.

    Smithey’s trial is expected to last two weeks.

    • Hmp. lester. I don’t know about this case but I sure wish lester would’ve stayed on Zimmerman.

      • Hey Shannon. Me too. He certainly had no respect for Zimmerman nor his legal team after learning of his perjury. Also, Judge Lester just might have allowed the expert voice witnesses at trial.

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