10 things you need to know today: August 22, 2014

Good morning caterpillars, butterflies, moths, and all creatures great and small.  Here’s 10 Things You Need To Know Today, courtesy of The Fifth Column.

The Fifth Column

The National Guard withdraw from Ferguson.  The National Guard withdraw from Ferguson. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)

The Week

National Guard begins withdrawing from Ferguson, a judge strikes down Florida’s gay-marriage ban, and more

1. Nixon pulls National Guard from Ferguson as protests grow calmer
Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon (D) announced Thursday that National Guard troops would begin withdrawing from Ferguson after two days of easing tensions there. Nixon said the troops had helped restore calm following sometimes violent protests over the killing of Michael Brown, an unarmed black teen, by a white policeman on Aug. 9. Attorney General Eric Holder visited the St. Louis suburb on Wednesday and promised a fair investigation. [The New York Times]


2. Judge rules Florida’s gay-marriage ban unconstitutional
A federal judge in Florida declared the state’s same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional on Thursday. U.S District Judge Robert L. Hinkle ordered the state to allow same-sex marriages and to recognize legal…

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Posted on 08/22/2014, in open discussion, Potpourri and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 61 Comments.

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      The New Yorker magazine captured the shattering realization that the police who are to serve and protect are actually a militarized threat to the Ferguson community.

  1. Gofundme has disabled comments on the Darren Wilson support page. Not only were they hatefully racist comments against Blacks, some trolls were using names such as “Jim Crow” and “Elliot Rodger.”


    • gofundme shld disable the entire page! why wld this private company want to facilitate a man getting rewarded for killing a kid using a their company’s webpage now that it’s abundantly clear how racist the donator’s intentions are? they have a choice whether or not to allow this or not. they should do what they’d want done if it were their kid who was gunned down.

      what will also be interesting is Darren Wilson’s willingness to accept this money now that he knows that the whole world knows what the sender’s intentions are. will he be a stand up guy and publicly refuse the money or is he a giant POS who not only agrees with the racist sentiment of the donors but is he also an opportunist user who will take money for a defense that he’s already entitled to receive for free from his police dept.
      can’t wait to see…

      • yahtzeebutterfly

        Oh, I am sure he will accept it. I imagine he considers those donors “family” who think exactly the way he probably does.

        • but my god, taking it now means he’s admitting to the world he has no morals and doesn’t care who knows it. not even the ppl who have the power to put him in prison?!

      • Just like George Zimmerman’s supporters, they give money not because they believe he is innocent, but because they don’t think a non-Black should be charged for murdering one of those people. Then we see comments made by bigotvoyants predicting what the deceased would have been had he/she lived.

        There are many things that grind against my spirit when reading such comments, but the saddest thing is knowing that those celebrating the death of anyone because of their race, are blinded by their own bigotry, because death does not discriminate.

        • I agree, they didn’t care about Zimmerman, they donated in celebration of a Black youth having been killed. Accepting their donations affirmed he agreed with their comments, imo.

          • Right, and along with George agreeing with the comments, his brother encouraged them. Junior, Papa and Mama Zim fanned the racial flames.

  2. People were asking Anonymous to shut it down but they declined, because to do so would be shutting down the whole site and they said that would effect too many innocent people.

  3. peni4yothot

    Grand jury has 9 whites and 3 AA.

    • I’m still hoping that they won’t take until October to hear all the evidence. The evidence at this time consists of autopsy reports and eyewitnesses. There might be some other forensics, but it’s not like having anything in Wilson’s favor. It should not take that long, even with the grand jury meeting once a week.

      • peni4yothot

        Hello Xena, I agree with you. No police report was made and all we’re getting is excuse one after another. What I gather is it only takes a vote of 9 to indict or not. The numbers aren’t promising.
        Both the Governor and Prosecutor are attempting to save their positions by not recusing himself or removing him. Have you seen the political makeup of that state? It’s red except for the larger metropolitan areas.

        • Hey Peni!
          When I heard the people say that McCullough must be recused, I asked myself, is there another State’s Attorney in the State of Missouri who is not partial to law enforcement? It comes as no surprise that the DOJ got involved so soon and is conducting investigation simultaneously with whatever the State is doing, including conducting its own autopsy. If the State fails to bring indictment via the grand jury, there might be heads rolling in St. Louis County for violation of the Civil Rights of its citizens.

          • peni4yothot

            If he was smart, he’d recuse himself. I’d be surprise if Clara McCaskill, Nixon and McCullough win their next elections. Speaking of politics, did you hear that the citizens of Ferguson are now working on recalling the Mayor (Knowles)?

            • Peni,
              No, I hadn’t heard that the citizens were working on recalling the Mayor. They should and must do all that is legally possible to free their city of oppression that is perpetrated by the powers that be.

  4. Two breaking things…..one is that they finally opened a box and installed the first dash cam on a Ferguson Police car…only about 1 month too late.

    Next is the ACLU received the first police report of the shooting. It is mainly blank with only the very basic information on it and it appears that Off. Wilson was not required/asked to fill one out an incident report on the shooting. So now you have an officer who hasn’t filled out a report stating his side and now has had almost 2 weeks to hear what the witnesses had to say and what the 2nd autopsy reported on.

    I can only draw from my experience, as an Air Traffic Controller, when we were involved in any type of incident we were required to fill out an incident report before we left the building. The most we were allowed to do was to listen to the recording to “refresh” our memory for filling out the report. It didn’t matter if it was our fault or not, landing gear collapse—fill out a statement, crash—fill out a statement, near-miss—fill out a statement, etc. If it was a serious enough incident like a crash or near-miss we had to remain in the building until pee testers showed up to drug test you. You might get pee tested for drugs even if you had nothing to do with the incident. Some were automatic, like in the event of a loss of life, but the decision was made higher up in a Regional officer to determine if one should be done and it almost always was ordered to check off a box.

    I cannot imagine how this officer is able to go home without a statement about the shooting, if this is true and not just another smoke and mirrors from the PD, then they need to change their procedures ASAP.

    The Grand Jury makeup was also released 3 black and 9 white.

    • Towerflower,
      Someone reported that the Ferguson PD immediately turned the case over to the St. Louis County police to investigate. That was their reason for why Wilson did not write/file a report. St. Louis County police filed a report of “homicide.”

      IMO, that does not follow correct procedure because Wilson committed the act while on duty. The only way he should be relieved of making a written report is if he was deemed a suspect exercising Miranda rights. He should be treated like any other murder suspect and arrested.

      • This is the copy from the St. Louis County Police Dept.

        Nothing on it but just basic information.

        • Thanks, towerflower. So, we can conclude that the Ferguson PD and St. Louis County Police Dept. did not want to document anything. Maybe they thought it would be business as usual with a family burying their child and talking about how no one does anything over Sunday dinners.

  5. The Westboro Baptist Church has also announced plans to picket the funeral of Michael Brown on Monday. I hope this information gets out and enough people are in attendance to prevent any impact on the mourners and that they leave his family alone.

    • If Westboro Baptist Church pickets Mike Brown’s funeral, it might be the last thing they ever picket because their signs might be shoved into places that they did not know existed on their bodies.

      Mike’s funeral might bring closure for some, but anger for others as they remember the cause of Mike’s death. That’s a situation that Westboro should not enter because they have no idea of the reaction their presence might provoke.

      • I’m so disgusted by this church’s actions, I would have posted their announcement but I hate to copy and paste their web site address name as it is just as vile as their actions. It’s hard to say where they show up since they often don’t show after they say they will.

        I hope that they leave this family and community alone.

    • peni4yothot

      OMFG, what’s their rationale?

    • The funeral is open to public so everyone will be there. I don’t think the WBC will go through with it- UNLESS, the Ferguson police are willing to provide protection. and if the ferguson pd does that, I say let there be war!
      (right after the funeral tho)

    • what’s wrong w. MY videos??!! they keep not showing up!

      • Shannon,
        The link goes to the site where the video can be watched. If you’re using “embed code” that is sometimes provided with videos on such sites, they do not work on Word Press blogs. I don’t know why, but Word Press only allows embedding of videos from Youtube, or if the blog has one of those add-on’s for posting videos produced by the blog administrator.

  6. Another officer has been relieved of his duties. Officer Page of the St. Louis police Dept was recently caught on tape pushing CNN’s Don Lemon back during a live broadcast. A search into his background found him giving a speech at an Oath Keepers meeting just a few months ago in which he attacks AA’s, gays, women, and the President.

    A copy of his speech is in this story: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/officer-who-pushed-don-lemon-relieved-of-duty-after-racist-rant-emerges/

    • Also it was just announced that before he can return to work, if he does, he must undergo a psychological exam. Just saw another clip of him and he is also a birther.

  7. ….and while a couple of officer’s have been relieved of duty due to their actions, the shooter of Michael Brown is now $200K richer, never wrote an official report on the shooting, on paid leave and still not charged.

  8. yahtzeebutterfly

    I received this email today and am passing it along to all of you:

    Last night, Governor Nixon said he will not appoint a special prosecutor to lead a transparent investigation into Michael Brown’s shooting.

    We cannot let this decision stand. Tweet Missouri Governor Jay Nixon and Attorney General Chris Koster, and ask them why they won’t support justice and transparency right away.

    It’s been 13 days since Officer Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown, and we still have an investigation being led by a man with personal, family, and professional ties to a local police department that has repeatedly failed its community. And the presiding prosecutor has not demonstrated a commitment to resolving previous civil rights complaints. There is nothing full and transparent about this process.

    Send your tweet to Governor Nixon and A.G. Koster right now:


    Thank you,


  9. This article is really strange. because they’re going through all kinds of housing type thing to the cops/city blocking all roads in and out but one using cinderblocks and crazy shit like an open air prison!!
    but because I’m not done reading yet there’s all kinds of other things i don’t understand yet,, some of this says “editors note” what is this their own words/opinions, i don’t know!


    Why did Michael Brown shooting happen where it did?

    Louis Smith, 68, sees the sprawling apartments as yesterday’s high-rise public housing complexes like Pruitt-Igoe.
    “After they tore these projects down, a lot of people started coming everywhere, everywhere, man,” said Smith, a retired McDonnell Douglas machinist who moved out of Canfield Green in the 1980s to buy a nearby home.
    He said his wife, who is involved with the neighborhood watch, has complained to city leaders about unchaperoned and unruly children who come over from the apartments and destroy property.
    “The women work,” he said of apartment residents. ”The guys stay home, smoke dope and walk around harassing people.”
    “You can’t say nothing to them,” he added. “They’ll cuss you out.”
    Ferguson real estate broker Georgia Rossel also took aim at the apartments.
    “Apartments don’t promote community,” said Rossel, who also serves on the planning and zoning board in nearby Jennings. “People are just in and out. They don’t stay.”
    But she said the rental market is so hot now because people can’t get home loans.
    Making matters worse in the eyes of some apartment residents, police have closed off nearly all access points with concrete barriers and fencing.
    About a year ago, a gate went up on the main thoroughfare that’s typically only open during the school year so buses can head to Koch Elementary School.
    When closed, hundreds of residents have just one way in and out.
    “The city required us to put that gate in,” said Burns, of Eagle Point. Stopping the traffic, she was told, would benefit the city and the police department.
    Rochele Jackson, 54, a Northwinds resident, viewed it a different way.

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Hi Shannon,

      Well, I went to the article you linked, and stopped when the author called the protests “violent”(felt like stopping before that point)….the only violence I saw was by the militarized police.

      It’s a St. Louis newspaper writing mainly to please a white audience.

      I just now was reading this article:

      “Reactions to the Shooting in Ferguson, Mo., Have Sharp Racial Divides”


  10. regarding the DOJ: As with the Trayvon Martin case, it’s important to know that the CURRENT probe is VERY VERY narrow in scope and that this is a far far cry from the feds coming in to “clean house.” Expect no action regarding the activities of the ferguson PD or the St. Louis county malfeasance, either. This is all about, “was Darrell Wilson racially motivated in his actions, and are they provably criminal in a civil rights manner.” In no way are they conducting a murder investigation, or an investigation into racist or corrupt practices in the departments.

    here is a fairly good article that speaks to the technical nature of all this, but you have to read between the lines to see that anyone would be foolish to expect a lot of action. Keep in mind that any investigative work won’t be public unless the media and the public file lawsuits, and even then they won’t release all they find, just as in the Martin case.


    It is good they are there but it remains to be seen if they will widen the probe. Like with Nixon vs McCoullough, no one wants this hot potato. The chances of a conviction that satisfies the local community are not good.

    • Hey Willis,
      There was a complaint filed with the DOJ by an organization on behalf of the man who the Ferguson PD mistook for someone else. Discovering their error, they beat him and then charged him with destruction of property for getting blood on their uniforms. I read the other day that the DOJ was investigating that matter also as a violation of civil rights. Sorry I don’t remember the source. In the past week I’ve been on information overload.

      There’s another aspect to the DOJ investigation also. Because Officer Wilson is employed by the Ferguson PD and was on duty at the time he killed Mike, the DOJ has jurisdiction to investigate that PD as a matter of discovery of any other cases that involve violation of civil rights. The FBI has an entire “color of law” section. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

      Violation of civil rights are not limited to hate crimes. It includes all constitutional rights.

      • Thanks Xena,
        As in Sanford, the DOJ will collect tips and complaints and has the authority to follow up on them. But until you see a big rental truck pull up to the Ferguson PD and 30 FBI agents begin to carry out all the files and all the hard drives, they are NOT cleaning house. Holder was quite specific in his initial announcement, and it’s worth noting that in his trip to Ferguson, he did NOT meet with or talk to, interview, sit down with, depose, question, etc. either the chief of Ferguson or the chief of St.Louis County police departments.

        This is political situation as well as a legal one, and I want to advise people that these things proceed in stages. We are in the initial stage now, where Holder’s presence is supposed to put pressure on the locals to mind their p’s and q’s and do a proper investigation into the shooting. As we have seen thus far, that isn’t happening.

        There is some hope that legally, the DoJ can act in cases that involve excessive force and NOT race to start a civil rights investigation. In that case, both the man who was charged with bleeding on officers and the family of Micheal Brown has some reason to hope. I just again want to say that thus far, this is NOT what has been announced and that these POLITICAL as well as legal moves come in definable stages and we would be wise to recognize what ge we are at currenty, which is NOT sweeping or all-inclusive by any means, YET.

    • yahtzeebutterfly

      Willis and Xena,

      What do you think about the accuracy of this article?

      I did not know this about Eric Holder’s past record of not prosecuting police involved in unjustified shootings in Washington, D.C. when he was the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia:

      “Eric Holder’s police shooting record? Dismal”


      • James Bovard of USA Today might need to answer some questions or someone needs to take him to school.

        First flag:

        As the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia from 1993 to 1997, Holder was in charge of policing the local police.

        No U.S. Attorney is in charge of policing the local police. Local police work under a Chief of Police who is appointed by the Mayor of the city. The jurisdiction of U.S. Attorneys is federal.

        The link in the article takes us to a Washington Post article dated 1999, where it says that Eric Holder was “Deputy Attorney General” for D.C. between 1993 to 1997. The article refers to him as “Deputy Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., was the District’s chief prosecutor from 1993 to 1997.”

        I’m unfamiliar with Eric Holder’s background, so do not know if the article is referring to Holder in the position of District Attorney (that is a prosecutor) or Deputy U.S. Attorney General (which is not a state prosecutor’s position). Reading the article further, and since the review of police shooting was given to Holder by U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, my guess is that Holder was a Deputy U.S. Attorney General.

        Knowing the positions are important because of jurisdiction. Knowing the cases is also important.

        What James Bovard has done is write a piece that does not distinguish between the D.C. Attorney General’s office, the U.S. Attorney’s office, and the U.S. Attorney General’s office.

        D.C. does have its own Attorney General and like other states, its focus is mainly on consumer protection issues. http://oag.dc.gov/

        • yahtzeebutterfly

          I just love being here on your blog, Xena, and getting help from you in understanding legal matters. Also, I appreciate your critical thinking skills. They’re tops! 🙂

          Thank you for analyzing this article for me!

          • Yahtzeebutterfly,
            Thanks for your questions and concerns when reading articles. We don’t know if we don’t ask.

            I wish that news publications would hire reporters and writers who have experience in the issues they write about. Misinforming the public because the writer is ignorant is not fair to readers, and definitely not fair to this nation. There are numerous colleges with numerous professors who have no problem speaking with journalists to give them a greater understanding. That USA Today reporter should have contacted a political science professor to explain the difference to him of who has authority over local police forces.

  11. yahtzeebutterfly


    FERGUSON, Mo. (CNN) – The FBI has opened an investigation of hacking attacks directed at the personal computers and accounts of police officers who are part of the law enforcement response in Ferguson, Missouri, three U.S. law enforcement officials told CNN.

    The cyber attacks are believed to be the work of hackers affiliated with the group Anonymous, the officials said Friday.

    It’s not clear how much personal data was compromised by these alleged cyber attacks, but it’s one reason why officers working the streets of Ferguson aren’t displaying their names on their uniforms, according to the officials.

    • Right, because not wearing a name tag during a violent police action against protesters is to protect your credit rating, not to shield your use of excessive force. (snark)

      Great reporting by sourcing “thee U.S. law enforcement officials” and not, say, anyone from the FBI itself. Let’s call “the U.S. law enforcement officials department” for confirmation on that one. (more snark)

      This is not only shoddy reporting, it’s major news organizations carrying water for racist street cops to excuse the practice of beating and abusing citizens engaged in peaceful protest under the cover of darkness and secrecy. And it’s compounding shameful and criminally racist violent acts with shoddy journalism. We’ve yet to see a single video of a journalist getting a straight answer to, “what is your name, officer?” Thanks, CNN and KFOR for backing this up with pathetically under sourced rumor from god knows where, and giving cover to a ludicrous idea.

      As for the hacker group Anonymous, they are the ones who uncovered the suspicion that the shooting was never called in by Ofc Darrell Wilson at all, and that the Ferguson PD learned about it com the St.Louis County PD because the STLcoPD heard about it on a local radio station! Of course THIS would be newsworthy but I’ve not seen the MSM working to get to the bottom of this, even through “unnamed sources.”

      I used to be disgusted, now I’m appalled. And weary, like so many who seek justice. But bloggers are the hope I see. Let’s keep ferreting out the tiny bits of truth in the public sphere and reporting them to one another, at least. Thanks for posting that.

  12. crustyolemothman

    Xena, While I am very reluctant to even make a post in regards to this highly charged emotion filled case, especially due to many thinking that I have no credibility and am a liar when I point out that some of the data they pass around as fact is questionable at best. However I will provide two links that will give you a little background as to what is quite possible the results of the grand jury and or the future trial of the police officer involved. While IMO his actions were consistent with murder, the law gives him much more benefit of the doubt than, again IMO, a normal American citizen in the same situation.


    The second problem is the alleged independent autopsy done at the request of the Brown family. I will post the link to the man that actually did the autopsy and you can decide how much faith to place in it after reading the man’s background. One important thing that needs to be considered is the expert from NY that has been touted so highly is similar to the expert that the defense used in the TW case, simply a hired gun. It also should be noted that the actual autopsy that was done for the family occurred two days before the expert arrived in the St. Louis area and the expert merely reviewed the work of the individual that did the physical autopsy. I might remind you folks how well that worked out for the defense in the TW case. I would suggest that if the state were to bring a case against the officer, and used the information that has been passed around on many sights as factual any good defense attorney would prevail. Is that what we want? If a conviction is to be had, it will be based on good factual evidence and not emotion.

    Change will come about in this nation, but not from mob action, it will come because there are people like Xena, and others who work hard every day seeking positive change. To seek change thru mob action will never work, it only feeds into the “conservative” story line of the violent nature of the minority groups…. I might ask how many have considered why the control of places like Ferguson remains in the hands of the white minority in the area? Have you even considered the fault lies in the hands of the people who do not vote? If you truly want change for the positive, it will take work, not just talk. The people that scream the loudest about the government are in my experience, the people who have not voted. Yes we can change this country in a positive way, but only thru hard work and support by the people who stand to benefit the most from the change, and their vote can and will make it happen.

    I’ll now take my “not credible” and “liar” self back to my cave and go back into watch and listen mode. I will post the link to the autopsy below…

    • Thanks for the links, and your opinion is refreshing to hear, from my personal POV. I will say this however, that blaming minorities for not voting does not take into account the coordinated efforts of the GOP to suppress this minority vote, and those efforts are nationwide. Inadequate polling places have led to all-day wait lines to vote in minority districts. Voter rolls are “scrubbed” of solid citizens haphazardly in gerrymandered districts that have been stretched and deformed by GOP majority official resulting in many court cases that prove civil rights violations have persisted for decades. Many many other tactics are coordinated in place by like-minded but less accountable groups, suck as ones who place robo calls carrying disinformation about election dates, or absentee voting deadlines, etc. Then we have to speak to the voter-ID laws, which are nothing but vote suppression tactics disguised as “law and order” laws. I’m sure you area aware of much of this, as well as the recent Supreme Court decisions about the Voting rights Act and the Civil Rights Act passed under LBJ during the height of the civil rights movement. This amounts to a modern day Jim Crow at the polling place. And the efforts are always increasing, while the tenor of “the party of no” continues to disillusion a middle class that is vanishing in the age of advanced capitalism and globalization.

      The good news is that, yes, the citizens of Ferguson MO have already started efforts to institute a recall election of the useless and spineless mayor of the city, and with luck they will also throw the entire city council out on their ear in six months time, which may even be soon enough to affect the quality of legal proceedings against Darrell Wilson and the ferguson PD.

      I’m not surprised the Brown family autopsy may have been a bit of a rush job, or to hear you say that controversy surrounds cases involving medical evidence and the people tasked to provide expert opinions in criminal cases. I would like to see that link that you offers to provide, however.

      • crustyolemothman

        willisnewton, Yes, I am very aware of the problems that exist within the voting process. However, I refuse to accept that just because it is an inconvenience that a person is excused from exercising their right to vote. If one fails to vote, regardless of whether that vote elects the person they want, then they fail the system. I again am aware of the vote suppression efforts of the GOP/TP/NRA over the last number of years, it affects me personally, I live in an area that is drawn in such a manner that my vote for the opposition party is considered futile by many. I might point out that in my voting district the last elections we actually managed to elect a few people that are truly listening to the voters, so I suggest there is hope, but only if we continue to push for “real” change. The way to succeed is to use the laws they have passed to our advantage, not by force or threats of violence… Have you or others actually paused to wonder why this case, which is not actually much different to many others over the last few years has been brought to the attention of this nation? Can you honestly tell me that you think this case is not political in nature? The GOP/TP/NRA is the group that will benefit from this national attention this case has garnered. It is working to galvanize the typical voter that would have normally voted in this mid term election, into voting to stop the advance the rights of the savages that have destroyed and looted. We have been played like a fiddle and fell right into the trap… The turnout for the GOP/TP/NRA will in all likely hood be much higher than normal for a mid term election, and will probably give them the majority in congress. What do you think that will mean for true progress for the equality of all people in this nation? To me, it means that we will suffer a set back that will take many more years to over come.
        I did provide a link to the qualifications of the man that was used to perform the actual autopsy for the Brown family. I would suggest if that man was involved, as he was, then if the prosecutor had to rely on his work, any good attorney would discredit him and his results… however that autopsy was not for a court of law but instead for the court of public opinion, where it has been offered (IMO) much more legitimacy than it should have been. When the results of both the state and federal autopsy’s are released, will they match the results of what we have at this point? Perhaps, but do we know that they will?

        If my words offend, then I’m truly sorry, my goal is not to offend, but to encourage people to look at things not in anger but with an eye toward discovering the truth. We can bring equality for all people to this nation, but only if we are willing to work to cause it to happen…

    • Mothman,
      I don’t see a problem with Michael’s family having an independent autopsy performed and this is why; the County’s ME did not and has not released the results of its own autopsy. Michael’s family deserves answers and regarding the autopsy, they could get an independent one performed.

      Now, I have to read the link you provided. Thanks for your comment.

      • crustyolemothman

        Xena, Please don’t misunderstand what I was saying. I, like you have no problem with the family getting an independent autopsy, however I really wish they had chosen to have it done by at least a qualified physician. If by chance you do read the link, you might have a better understanding of what my concerns are…

    • Mothman,
      Just read the link. Here’s the important part of the court’s decision;

      “The ‘reasonableness’ of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight,” Rehnquist wrote.

      “Reasonableness” is used in many types of cases, especially civil cases, Dethorne Graham’s case heard by SCOTUS was a civil case.

      If I were a member of a jury hearing about Darren Wilson, my question would be was it reasonable for Wilson to get out of his vehicle and fire his weapon at a running man? What caused Wilson to do that? After hearing testimony in his defense (if any) as to why he got out of his vehicle and fired his gun at a running person, if that action was not reasonable, then nothing that came thereafter could have been reasonable. Getting out of his vehicle was his action that started a reaction leading to his killing Michael.

  13. Xena,again Darrel Wilson defenders are questioning the autopsy
    performed by the assistant but disregarding that was
    Dr Michael Barden who performed the autopsy,anything
    to poke holes,they are (Darrel Wilson’s defenders) helping
    the shooter by disseminating fallacies and Strawman all over the NET.

    Poising those arguments and questioning everything and everyone in the name
    of the truth and justice is the straw man fallacy.

    Dr. Michael Baden is a renowned forensic pathologist and former
    chief medical examiner for New York City. He has also served
    as an expert witness for criminal cases including the O.J. Simpson
    trial and Marlon Brando’s son’s murder trial,but the Missouri coroner
    is questioning the assistant background ?

    Susan Weich=applying Aunt Sally options and creating false alternatives,
    someone need to inform her it was Dr Baden the one who performed
    the autopsy.

    According to NBC News, Dr. Baden performed a four-hour autopsy
    on the body of Michael Brown.


    • Joseph,
      Those type of tactics is why Americans no longer have new candidates campaigning for political office. If they stepped on an ant when they were 3, evil folks will blame them and their parents. I saw one of the ignorant cult members try to argue that because Dr. Baden’s assistant was dressed in scrubs, that he actually performed the autopsy.

      You’re absolutely correct about the straw man fallacy. Bullet holes in the body to do not lie.

      • Xena “Bullet holes in the body to do not lie” But according to them,”if” would” “but
        the one helping to perform the autopsy is the culprit.

        • Joseph,
          Their ignorance is why they are not credible. I hope that the next time they have a medical test, that they make sure to tell their physician to not rely on lab results.

          • crustyolemothman

            Xena & Joseph Norton, Thank you for taking the time to read the links that I provided. I am disappointed that you find me not credible and ignorant as well. However that is your right. Have a great evening.

            • Mothman,
              I think you might be confusing the discussion with Joseph about the haters by thinking it’s about you. It’s not. I don’t judge your credibility and know that you’re not ignorant. You express opinions based on your experience, and I validate your experience.

              The situation in Ferguson has many layers. You address a layer involving politics and unlawful actions of folks taking advantage of peaceful people protesting. I do not support those stealing and using violence, and I don’t focus on that layer or aspect because my focus is on Darren Wilson’s actions. I believe he should be arrested and tried with murder.

  14. Mothman,your credibility is not the issue,you are not the one raising a strawman .

    The issue is with those who are writing and claiming Aunt Sally is the culprit.

    I knew about the link and and other fallacies expressed in the Net.

    I don’t think Xena thinks that you are an ignorant to the contrary nor
    she is questioning your opinions.on a negative way.

    Have a great evening.too!

  15. yahtzeebutterfly

    Ferguson has had a history of police targeting its residents rather than protecting them.

    This type of police behavior was so extreme in the city Jennings with the police violating its residents that the police force was completely disbanded and replaced by new officers 3 years ago.

    And, guess what? Ofc. Darren Wilson was one of those officers eliminated from that Jennings police force.

    “Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities”


  16. chuquestaquenumber1

    August 25 2014 is the day Ted Wafer is supposed to be sentenced for murdeing Renisha McBride.

  17. chuquestaquenumber1

    August 25 2014 is the day Ted Wafer is supposed to be sentenced for murdering Renisha McBride.

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