Posted on 08/06/2014, in Cases, Renisha McBride and tagged closing arguments, deliberations, jury, Renisha McBride, Ted Wafer, Theodore Wafer, trial. Bookmark the permalink. 84 Comments.
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We Hold These Truths To Be Self-Evident 
It’s ludicrous to say he was being ‘attacked’ by someone banging on his door. To just indiscriminately fire the way he did was negligent at the VERY least.
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Ludicrous is right. Knocking on doors is not against the law. Maybe when Jehovah’s Witnesses come by my house again, I can call the cops and say I’m under attack.
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IMO you are more at risk from the Jehovah”s Witnesses who beat on your door than you would have been from Mz. McBride…
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Mothman,
Absolutely! There have been a few Jehovah’s Witnesses who I’ve spoken with through my front door telling them that I was in no position to open it, and they insisted on talking anyway.
If Ted had just said, “Who is it? What do you want?” Renisha would have realized that she was not at her house. She would probably have been completely lost and maybe asked that he call the police to help her. It’s when you ask who is at the door and don’t get an answer, that the householder should become suspect and call the police anyway.
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A great friend of mine had JV’s knock n the door, he couldn’t tell it was them so he opened the door. When he told them he wasn’t interested, of course they wouldn’t leave, PLUS put their foot in the door so that he couln’t shut it. He had to tell them if they didn’t get their foot out of the door he was going to call 911.
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Lolypop,
I’ve had some very persistent JWs come to my house. They were persistent to the point of being disrespectful of myself and my property. Ringing the doorbell once or twice is sufficient. But they don’t stop. They ring again and they knock. They knock and they ring. My dog goes nuts and after I speak through the door and tell them I’m not interested, they continue talking.
I realize that they believe their salvation depends on going door to door, but Jesus said if the message is not accepted to knock the dust from your feet — LEAVE. They should learn and practice that part.
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We just had 2 teens knock on our door asking if we’d like our grass cut, it never occurred to me that we were being attacked!!
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Mindyme,
Those lawnmowers were weapons against your grass and you have the right to protect your property. Isn’t that a defense? 🙂
Fear is a mother you-know-what. The next thing we know, people will kill birds for singing at their windows because they don’t like “chirp grab.”
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If the victim had bad intentions , she wouldn’t bang on his door and wake up the whole town.
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HA! There you go. Truth spoken in one sentence. I’ve thought that Renisha thought she was at her own house. Burglars are not persistent knocking on doors. They knock, don’t get an answer and break-in.
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Very good point
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Excellent point, renxkyoko.
In fact, I just mentioned that point today to two friends during our lunch and afternoon get-together.
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The very idea suggested by some people that some how Mz. Renisha McBride was some how the cause of her own death in this case is absolutely absurd and speaks loudly about the culture of hate and violence that has taken over our nation… To those of you that think she received what she deserved, I can only say that your views of right and wrong are terribly twisted into a us or them mentality… I wonder if that is a treatable mental illness?
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Because court will end today at 4:00 EDT (per the judge), I will predict we will not have a verdict today…
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Judge and attorneys have returned to the courtroom.
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Jurors sent note to the judge requesting several items. They want a board and markers; clips of the screen door and a tape measure. The 2 clips of the screen were admitted into evidence but the jury doesn’t have them.
Jurors also want to know how long they have to deliberate today. Judge says until 4 p.m.
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oh dear….
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The jury has been dismissed for the day.
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I hope that the jury is made up with some people with common sense to see through all the BS.
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towerflower, you got that right. I wonder if any of the jurors ever had too much to drink, forgot where they were, and now realize what a blessing it was that they did not encounter a Ted Wafer?
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just from the limited access of tweets& video clips of this trial it seems the prosecutors were pretty aggressive & passionate about this case. quite a contrast between this & Zimmerman’s trial.
I hope we can get the videos of this trial bc I’d like to compare & contrast the two and the dunn trial too.
one example today was when prosecutors told the judge the defense is ‘playing games’ and trying to confuse the jury etc.. the whole tone is different to me..
I feel satisfied in what little I heard that the state here did try to get this guy convicted.
i think he’ll be convicted of M2.
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Shannon,
The state prosecutors proceeded like prosecutors should (as best as I can tell). They pulled no punches telling the judge when the defense was playing games or using semantics. Then again, they didn’t have to worry about the defense holding press conferences later with the possibility of being asked their opinion of the prosecutors’ performance.
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Here is a video of excerpts from today’s closing arguments.
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Thanks for posting this, Xena.
I am going to watch it now.
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I can’t believe the defense at timestamp 2:06 to 2:17!
Sounds as if she is reading a story book. (“Three Little Pigs?”…. I am going to huff and PUFF and BLOW YOUR HOUSE DOWN!!)
Fiction!
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Yahtzeebutterfly,
With all that vibration and house shaking crap, one would assume his house was made of sticks or straw like the first 2 pigs. The third pigs house was very strong, it was built of BRICKS, and it could not be blown down. The pigs remained safe in the house for hours.
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You are right….Wafer’s house was “buttoned down” as the prosecutor pointed out. Wafer should have stayed in his house and called 911.
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Yahtzee,
Just imagine, all that shaking and banging and yet no signs of an attempted break-in. Carpenter actually insulted the intelligence of the jury with that performance.
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Yep, not one sign of any attempted break-in.
“Carpenter actually insulted the intelligence of the jury with that performance.”
Absolutely!!!
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Really yahtzee,
What in the hell was his house made of???
That house didn’t look like it would shake.
Maybe he had just left his vibrator on in his recliner.
He opens the door and kills?
He was going to investigate??
That’s crap.
He talks like he’s too scaed to investigate, but opens the door.
He saw there was no weapon.
Confused? So we murder someone because we’re confused?
That’s A crock!
None of his lies even make sense.
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I also feel that the jury will hand down its verdict today.
It is my belief that true justice would be a 2nd degree murder conviction.
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No doubt the reporters will immediately tweet and let us know when the jury returns to the courtroom with its verdict:
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Good Morning. Verdict Watch continues. Giving you all a heads up, I will B getting 2 courthouse late 2day.
But i will be keeping up, plugged in, and in tune.
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oralandar brand-wms @oralandar_DN
Jurors for Wafer case all in jury room deliberating for second day
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Looks like jurors might be asking for a laptop..attys and pros might have to go on record regarding this request..
the request cld have to do with the taped police interview of Wafer
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pros and attys going to talk in chambers to judge dana hathaway about jury’s laptop request and “other issues”
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judge on bench
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judge brining out juror number 6 before they bring up entire jury…
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juror #6 has a “committment on Friday” judge wants to know if he can be released before Noon..that issue resolved
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jury gone back to jury room
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A laptop should be safe as long as they disable the Wi-Fi on it. But would it not be a better idea to have a larger screen and a dvd player to allow them to all see it at the same time?
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Good idea.
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pros pat muscat making rec of digital info in case that have been burned onto disc
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looks like jurors will get laptop if they want one…the concern of internet browing not one cause no wi-fi in bldg
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Ha, you were right, crustyolemothman!
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day… 😉
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🙂
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There was a knock from jury door 2 min ago. Don’t know what it means yet. I didn’t notice any note passed to deputy
Jury going to lunch
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Waiting for a jury to return a verdict is almost as much fun as watching grass grow…
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mothman,
Yeah, like watching grass grow to see how many weeds are going to pop up.
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or watching paint dry … but at least you can sniff it 🙂
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Jury is now back from lunch…
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If the judge would start ordering lunch for the jury from the jail kitchen, we would have a verdict much sooner! Ok, my bad joke day continues…
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Judge says that if jury doesn’t reach a verdict today, they will be back tomorrow.
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we now have another note from the jury, no information as to the content yet…
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lots of movement in the court room, do we have a verdict?
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I was just checking out Twitter.
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We might have a verdict, the pros is back in the court room
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it looks like we have a verdict the court room is full and deputies are in the court room
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A verdict has been reached….
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extra deputies are in court room…
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wafer looks straight ahead…
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we definatly have a verdict jury coming in
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WE HAVE A VERDICT! I’m watching WXYZ live.
Guilty of 2nd degree murder. Guilty of manslaughter.
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guilty of 2nd degree murder
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and manslaughter and weapons charges
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Well, there can still be justice in this nation after all… Renisha McBride’s murderer has been found guilty…
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I just opened a new post regarding the verdict.
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And Wafer is going to jail today over the objections of his defense attorney… Yes!!!
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Wafer will not be put in jail in Wayne County, sentencing on 21 Aug. He showed no emotion..
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To make it clear, he will go to jail today, just not to the Wayne county jail….
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Yep. He was remanded until sentencing on 8/21 where he will be transferred to a state prison. I was just checking sentencing for 2nd degree murder to see if there is a minimum, but can only find the maximum sentence in Michigan’s sentencing guidelines. Wafer is looking at life in prison.
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Xena, If what I have read on other site’s is accurate, there is no minimum given and the Judge has a lot of discretion in the length of the sentence. With that in mind and the demeanor of the Judge when dealing with TW, I would suspect she will sentence him to the maximum length of time. We won’t know that for sure until the 21st, fingers and toes crossed…..
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Mothman,
Since we weren’t able to see the trial livestream, I didn’t get a good handle on Judge Hathaway. Listening to her and seeing how she controlled things by adhering to the rules of evidence, I suspect she will use his words when sentencing — Renisha had her entire life before her and he took that away.
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There is a family new conference going on now, I don’t have the link….
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Hmmm? Is everyone in shock? Awfully quiet on here….
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Actually mothman, I think people are running errands and doing other things, thinking that a verdict would not be reached this soon. Even Twitter is rather quiet.
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Yes, I was out on an errand and came back to find your new page with the verdict.
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Yahtzee,
You are indeed a butterfly. Your hard work kept us up-to-date and you were here everyday of the trial. That must have felt like a full-time job. I love you, dear sister.
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damn! this is good to hear! restores a bit of hope for this sick, twisted nation. i’m hoping this sends a message far and wide, that reckless ‘self defense’ is unacceptable (unless you are in florida).
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Hey Faux!!
Those who supported Zimmerman and Wafer see this as a miscarriage of justice — they don’t think that Wafer should not have been arrested because he was protecting his home.
They think that as long as a person says they were afraid, that it justifies taking human life.
I will always believe that Renisha thought she was at her own house. If it’s true what Wafer said about her coming from the side to the “porch” when he opened his main door, then she was probably very happy that her mom or grandmom had finally come to open the door for her. But he blew off her face with a shotgun.
Justice was served in this case. Let’s hope that prosecutors do their job in Dunn’s retrial.
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yeah, well ‘they’ (wafer sympathizers) are what me and bros (all gun owners) would call LADFs. that is lame ass dumb fux to the rest of you. all three of us were taught not just gun safety but the damn law too, our dad was, after all, federal LE. these kind of cases of false self defense make us pretty angry, because we all know better. (yes, hate to break it, there are two more much like me on the planet, only bigger. my 5’10” is impressive, but not when my 6’2″ bro — the ‘smaller one’ can throw me around like a sack of spuds, only he calls it ‘dancing’.)
may this verdict ring a bell that cannot be unrung!
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Faux,
Thanks for explaining the acronym. 🙂
Hey — I was right there with you and your siblings — am a former gun owner. The threat was real. The person was slick and the cops actually told me to get and learn to use a gun.
Although I don’t think I’ll ever own a gun again, I’m not anti-gun but am against conceal and open carry. About the only thing I would imagine needing a gun for now is to shoot snakes, but I choose to pay a wildlife guy to spray my yards with repellant so the slimy creatures can live — just not in my yards. What I’ve spent for that could have purchased an arsenal, but that is life.
DITTO!
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