Posted by Xena
Below is the video recap of yesterday’s hearing by WXYZ-TV.
We read the tweets about the defense’s argument for entering Renisha’s social media into evidence, but the video shows us the passion in the prosecutor’s argument. The defense actually wanted to enter a police report involving Renisha when she was (wait on it) ……… 15 years old!
The judge did not allow the entry of that info into evidence because it is too old.
Today, an officer is going to be recalled to the witness stand to try to explain how a hundred bill purportedly found in Renisha’s pocket went missing.
I apologize for being absent so much. Hopefully after today I will start recovering and my health will allow me to have more time to blog.
Posted on 07/30/2014, in Cases, Renisha McBride and tagged hundred dollar bill, Renisha McBride, social media, Ted Wafer, trial. Bookmark the permalink. 236 Comments.
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We Hold These Truths To Be Self-Evident
Court reconvenes at 9:00 a.m. this morning. Here are 2 Twitter sites reporting the trial proceedings:
Oralandar brand-wms is a Detroit News reporter (courts beat):
Mandi Wright, a photographer for the Detroit Free Press, tweets photos from the courtroom:
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Good morning yahtzee, it is good to see that you are up and ready to go at such an early hour… After spending quite a bit of time researching the law and thinking about the bomb shell that was dropped by the defense at the end of yesterdays session, I am going to adopt a “wait and see” attitude for the day. One thing that really causes me concern however is the pros not seeming to be prepared for this revelation… It would seem to me if the defense had access to these tapes then the pros did as well and this matter should have been disposed of long before the trial began.. Yet it was not, why? Are we seeing a Florida style prosecution of some sort? I must admit, after my initial feeling that the state would do a poor job in the prosecution of TW (for racial reasons perhaps?) after watching the pros in action I had begun to change my assessment and actually begun to feel there was hope for justice in this case after all, then suddenly and with out warning, my legs were shot out from under me with the revelation that there was quite possibly official misconduct on the part of some of the officers involved in the investigation that could have a direct bearing on the out come of the case and at best would serve to poison the well, so to speak, in the minds of the members of the jury. Ok, now with that said, I am attempting to calm down and hoping that this event does not have an adverse effect on the case that has been presented up to this point, and the pros does an adequate job of damage control to ensure that things progress and a verdict in this case is rendered based on the facts of the case and not on conjecture on the part of either side… Now, if yesterday is any example, I need to get out my really big coffee pot and fire it up, it might be a long day…
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I think that the defense is going to use the $100 discussion to attempt to dirty Renisha’s reputation. The prosecution will object. Judge will probably sustain the objection, but the jury will have heard it all and some might have a question in the back of their minds about Renisha’s character. This is wrong and unfair to Renisha and has nothing to do with Wafer’s actions that night because he did not know what was in her pockets.
The fact is any concern or alarm Wafer experienced by the “banging” on his door should have caused him to call 911 and NOT to open his front door.
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The defense has already injected the theory that TW did not call 911 because he could not find his phone, that was located in his jeans pocket, Hmmm did he go to the door in his underwear? Perhaps if he had spent the time looking for his phone that he used getting his shotgun and finding and loading the shells, he could have found the phone and called 911 and not needed the shotgun?
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Yep, I agree.
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“I need to get out my really big coffee pot and fire it up, it might be a long day…”
Bet you will not be doing it using this method:
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🙂 My Mom still has my Grandmother’s percolator!
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Cool!
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I don’t see how this side issue can compromise the trial. It has no bearing on Wafer’s actions.
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Another site to augment what we have already…
http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Day_4_of_testimony_in_Dearbon_Heights_porch_shooting_trial?Page=0
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Here is one part of the law that might give the pros a problem with Mz. McBride’s presence upon the porch and the claim of fear on the part of TW and his actions. It possibly won’t cause a problem, and IMO is questionably applicable because of the wording of the Castle Doctrine law in Michigan. Read it and see what you think…
“Nor, as a general matter, may a visitor come to the front door in the middle of the night without an express invitation. See State v. Cada, 129 Idaho 224, 233, 923 P. 2d 469, 478 (App. 1996) (“Furtive intrusion late at night or in the predawn hours is not conduct that is expected from ordinary visitors. Indeed, if observed by a resident of the premises, it could be a cause for great alarm”).
Similarly, a visitor may not linger at the front door for an extended period. See 9 So. 3d 1, 11 (Fla. App. 2008) (case below) (Cope, J., concurring in part and dissenting in part) (“[T]here is no such thing as squatter’s rights on a front porch. A stranger may not plop down uninvited to spend the afternoon in the front porch rocking chair, or throw down a sleeping bag to spend the night, or lurk on the front porch, looking in the windows”). The license is limited to the amount of time it would customarily take to approach the door, pause long enough to see if someone is home, and (if not expressly invited to stay longer), leave.
As I understand the law of trespass and the scope of the implied license, a visitor who adheres to these limitations is not necessarily required to ring the doorbell, knock on the door, or attempt to speak with an occupant. For example, mail carriers, persons making deliveries, and in-dividuals distributing flyers may leave the items theyare carrying and depart without making any attempt to converse. A pedestrian or motorist looking for a particular address may walk up to a front door in order to check a house number that is hard to see from the sidewalk or road. A neighbor who knows that the residents are away may approach the door to retrieve an accumulation of newspapers that might signal to a potential burglar that the house is unoccupied.””
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/11-564
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Great research, crustyolemothman!
I went further to find the case…Here it is (I think…big maybe)
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=13880004192609990793&q=State+v.+Cada&hl=en&as_sdt=6,30&as_vis=1
Basically Rodney Cada was contending that late night searches by LE to see if Cada had marijuana were deemed unreasonable and against his constitutional protection and the motion to suppress what LE found out was granted.
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This was an LE investigative intrusion on Cada….not an dangerous intrusion that threatened death or great bodily harm. I really don’t see how Wafer’s lawyers can use it in the trial.
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Yet, I do understand Michigan’s Castle Law includes it to assert what can cause the “great alarm” of the resident. It did not cause Cada great alarm, though.
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Good Morning,
I believe we would all be alarmed by someone knocking or banging at our door at that time of night. But do we go grab a gun, open the door, and shoot the person in the face. That is what TW must overcome, and I don’t believe he can. No excuse, (weather it be fear, she was drunk or high, there were 1,2,3 of them, he couldn’t find his phone), is going to work. The only question that needs to be answered IMO is, do you find the action TW took is reasonable to what others would do in the same situation?
This would be my response. I would be alarmed by someone knocking at the door at that time. Something is wrong, is one of the kids hurt, what’s going on. I would go to the door, and ask who it is. I never open the door to anyone, unless I know who it is. If I get no answer, sorry Charlie, that door is not going to be answered. It is my belief, Renisha would have answered, TW could have then made the choice by her response to open the door or not. He had choices, but to grab a gun, open the door, and shoot her in the face, is not acceptable, neither is the accident excuse. A gun doesn’t load itself. If you have a gun in the house, you know when you go to grab a gun to use, that you have it loaded, or you keep it unloaded, there is no wondering, you know. And….what about the other two?
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I agree with all of your comment, butterflydreamer2.
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bfd2: I believe we would all be alarmed by someone knocking or banging at our door at that time of night. But do we go grab a gun, open the door, and shoot the person in the face.
This sounds so much like Piglet’s story about following a ‘suspicious’ person but didn’t make sure that he was carrying his gun before he exited his truck.
Who goes looking for trouble unless you know you have a weapon to either protect yourself or you are carrying the weapon to ‘eliminate’ the threat.
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The problem is that in the “FLORIDA v. JARDINES” case it looks as if the majority more or less ruled that all of the prior arguments as applied to the “porch” were more or less invalidated. While my reading of the case law and the verdict do not support that idea, the premise that it does has been advanced on other sites biased in the favor of TW… Of course to be honest the decision that the SCOTUS came to in that case is IMO absurd at best and seems to be politically based rather than on case law, but perhaps I, not being a lawyer am incorrect… After all we all know that justice is blind, right? and political consideration would never come into play in a SCOTUS decision….
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Thanks for your observations here. So the Castle Doctrine came from the Supreme Court?
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No, the concept of the “Castle Doctrine” was based on common law long before the FLORIDA v. JARDINES case was even a thought. However the thoughts of some that the Michigan castle doctrine passed several years before that ruling from the SCOTUS has a direct affect upon the interpretation of the wording of the Michigan law. My reading says it does not because that case was only related to a 4th amendment violation by the police (an illegal search) and is not a realistic application to this case…
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ahh….got it. Thanks, crustyolemothman!
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Reblogged this on The ObamaCrat™.
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Another person tweeting from the courtroom is Elisha Anderson:
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Here is the link for Elisha Anderson:
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Any idea why the delay in starting the trial this morning? Or am I just not getting updates from the twitter sites?
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court in session now
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assistant wayne county prosecutor Pat Muskat (spelling??) part of prosecution team too.
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it’s pat muscat..
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def atty cheryl carpenter says she’s not renewing motion for mcbride’s cell phone records but does think they shld be on record
jury coming in
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jury seeing video depicting rainy conditions outside wafer’s home that nov. 2 morning..
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video shows police car pull up to front of wafer’s home..looks like view is about 20 feet away from front door
video done
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dearborn hghts dt. sgt stephen gurka back on stand..def atty cross-examining him
def atty cheryl carpenter asks him his role as officer in charge of case..”wld you agree w/me that more cld have been done” asks carpenter
pros object. carpenter rephrases.ask about screen. pros objects. judge gives def atty little leeway
Investigation, evidence collection questioned in Renisha McBride killing during Day 4 of testimony Tuesday.
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article on Tues. testimony being referred to by Elisha is at this link:
http://www.freep.com/article/20140729/NEWS02/307290065/Shooting-on-porch-Renisha-McBride
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gurka says “no” more cld not have been done he says “I handled the invstigation as best I thought..”
def atty asks about his training..he says last crime scene invest. training he went to was in 2001
Gurka:”this case to me was open and shut in a sense. Not a burglary.”
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well that’s good news.
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Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
Dearborn Heights Det. Sgt. Stephen Gurka testifies
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There was no evid that it was a breakin, says Gurka
Gurka says he didn’t think fingerprints were relevant “not from the info. i had that it was an accidental discharge.”
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pros object. to def atty further quest about evid collec. sidebar from judge
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Carpenter : wld you agree there is a lot of pressure involved in this case. Gurka..yes there is ..
def atty asking why about why no crime scene log of the case
def atty asking why wafer’s side door not considered part of crime scene since he was told there was banging at side door
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sidebar
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jury excused for 5 minutes. don’t know why yet
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def atty has motion to allow testimony from another officer from western wayne narcotics team about a raid two doors down from wafer
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motion is to ques. Gurka about statements made from another officer also about seeing someone running in area of wafer..pros objects
pros objects saying the info was followed up
def atty tells judge the info needs to be cross exam./ came from a sub inves..judge says it’s hearsay
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judge tells def atty to have the offl. from the other dept to come in and testify but def atty says the off. has been dodging her
judge going off bench to look back over the info from the officer from another metro detroit police agency
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judge not allowing the statement of the other officer into record and not allowing before jury ..def atty still trying to get in
def atty says “mr. wafer did not change his story”
jury coming back
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gurka back on stand. def atty asking about poss. crime scene contam by wafer neighbors. he says they did not come on property
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def atty asks about crime scene tape. gurka says he didn’t see need to put it up saying also that he doesnt carry any. patrol off. do
more questions about the manner of evid. collection at the crime scene
def atty asking if officers contam. crime scene by “stepping” into evidence near mcbride’s body. gurka explains sometimes it can’t be helped
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Dearborn Heights Det. Sgt. Gurka said he didn’t think getting fingerprints was relevant.
If her fingerprints are there, it’s because she knocking. If they’re not there it doesn’t mean she wasn’t at the scene, he said.
Exchange between Gurka and defense attorney about a possible muddy footprint on the air conditioning unit at Wafer’s house.
Gurka said he doesn’t know when it was placed there and can’t say it was a footprint. Defense asked if he called somebody from MSP for it.
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“I don’t know when that footprint was placed there” Gurka said. “Maybe Mr. Wafer climbed on his air conditioner to look at his gutters.”
Defense: or maybe there was a second person trying to gain entry in the back of the house. Did you ever think of that.
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Gurka: then that’s the person Mr. Wafer should have shot. He doesn’t have any info that other people were outside the home, he said.
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jurors looking at photograph of a vigil for mcbride held at the wafer home following the nov. 2 shooting before fingerprints taken.
gurka says he was not concerned if people at vigil touched wafer doors cause fingerprints not imp in case
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def atty asking about the money collected from mcbride’s body that nov. 2 morning
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gurka says he didn’t know about the missing $100 for two days. the money, he says, is back with the family.
gurka says it was for the med exam to sort thru the money issue..def atty now asking about the maggots fd in mcbride’s clothing
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Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
#TheodoreWafer attorney Cheryl Carpenter hands Gurka money from #RenishaMcBride $56.
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Elisha Anderson @elishaanderson
McBride’s clothes has 15-20 maggots on it when they returned from the medical examiner’s office, he said
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def atty asks why mcbride’s body laid on porch for more than an hour w/o a tarp to cover it. asking if rain that morn. cld wash away dvid.
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gurka says med. exam not told of mcbride’s earlier car crash ..initially
def atty ask gurka more about inves/pics on screen door. she’s asks if other officers were taking cell phone pics of mcbride’s body.
gurka says he was not aware of cell photos taken of mcbride’s body
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def atty asking Gurka more about his investigation into the case
gurka says he didn’t go to gas station on warren but did call them..they had no video from the nov. 2 .says concen his inves on east warren
gurka says he found no weapons in the alleys of the route mcbride intially took in alley and on east warren
gurka says it wld have been imposs for someone to break into wafer’s backdoor
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Def asking, as det in charge of case, why certain things not done; why Amber Jenkins, interviewed by Bivins, not interviewed at the station
Bivins said interview happened at Coney Island; Def asks why BP on Warren not checked for a sighting of #RenishaMcBride
Gurka says he didn’t go to gas station on Warren but did call them..they had no video from 11/2/13
Def asks if Gurka searched the alley where #RenishaMcBride went into after her car accident
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Correction:
The first set of tweets above were not from Elisha but from Orelandar Brand Williams
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gurka says he didn’t think wafer was drinking or had engaged in drug use that Nov. 2 morning
gurka says after wafer gave statement at police station that morning he was free to go home
gurka says police left wafer alone in back of squad car for about hour and a half that morning. he also was not handcuffed
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defense asks gurka to look at pics of wafer’s home from november last year
pics of front screen door being shown on overheard for jurors
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https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense asks if there were measurements from #RenishaMcBride’s feet to Wafer’s door; Gurka says no, no measurements taken
Gurka states that screen insert was down about 7/8 inches; says that #RenishaMcBride’s feet were “knocking distance” from door.
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gurka says he didn’t “think to” measure screen door or to measure how far away mcbride’s feet from wafer’s front door.
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Gurka states looked like she had been knocking at door, based on how she was laying, but he confirms no measurements taken
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https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense is asking Gurka about questioning at prelim hearing in Dec 2013 re: plastic clips.These clips hold/held screen insert in screen door
Defense atty says his testimony from 12/2013 says he found some clips inside door of house; Gurka says that statement is not 100% accurate
Elisha Anderson @elishaanderson
They also asked Gurka why he didn’t listen to McBride’s voicemails. He said measurements weren’t taken of the screen dislodged in door.
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Are there any photos of these clips?
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https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Gurka says “no connection” between McBride and Wafer..he says he examined about 69 pages of her cell phone records to make conclusion
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The above tweet was from Oralander although TrialFile had a similar one
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The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 23s
Cross examination of Gurka completed.
Prosecution redirecting
Gurka says he had search warrant signed by a judge allowing him to seize evidence
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jurors passing away plastic bag with single plastic clip in place..jurors handing it back before 5 minute break
[plastic clips that held wafer screen door in place]
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oralandar brand-wms @oralandar_DN
jurors passed around the plastic baggie w/plastic plastic clip. they gave back to court before going for brief mid-morning break
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Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
A video clip of Det. Sgt. Gurka’s earlier testimony as he is questioned by #TheodoreWafer attorney. #RenishaMcBride
http://www.freep.com/videonetwork/3704575493001 …
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What day was it that the defense said their medical expert would be available to testify? My memory seems to be that it was going to be Thursday, am I correct? If so then that might explain why the defense is dragging out the testimony from the pros witnesses… Just a thought….
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jury back in..monica mcbride on stand for pros. she says she gave renisha the $100 bill. def atty cross exam her about nov. 8 vigil
monica mcbride attended saying she does not remember how many peo. there “i was emotionally devastated” she says. vigl was nov. 8.
sidebar
def atty has monica mcbride look at a pic of renisha wearing “work attire” wearing steel boots for contract job at ford
Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
Monica McBride mother of #RenishaMcBride called back to stand by prosecution.
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good morning — i’m late for class but gonna cram for the exam. 🙂 catch up with y’all in a bit.
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Good morning, faux 🙂
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Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
Assistant Wayne County Medical Examiner Dr. Kilak Kesha takes stand.
monica mcbride done test. dr. kilak kesha coming on stand. he’s med exam who performed mcbride autopsy
kesha has performed just over 1,000 autopsies
kesha also a lecturer at the University of Michigan in area of pathology..
under ques by def atty Dr. Kesha is asked why he’s not board certified
Kesha says he plans to take board exam. he’s just been too busy with young baby at home…
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Medical Examiner’s report:
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Kesha performed McBride autospy on Nov. 2 beginning around 8 am
Kesha explaining the procedures of autopsies.
Kesha says: McBride was 5’4 180 lbs.
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kesha says McBride had GSW to the face..to slight left of middle line to the face..seeing diagram inn overhead
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Kesha: blood on McBride’s right hand..trace blood on left hand..no injuries, swelling, etc to hands
gsw track front to back and right to left
jurors will see autopsy photos. the courtroom audience will not see them. def expert dr. werner spitz, former coroner, going up front to see
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From July 28, 2014:
oralandar brand-wms @oralandar_DN · Jul 28
defense going to have former wayco med exam werner spitz testify but in limited capacity
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Mandi Wright@DetroitMandi
Dr. Kesha testifies pellets recovered from #RenishaMcBride brain during autopsy
kesha:
Kasha says he recovered gun shot pellets and fragments of plastic wadding from gun shot shell from McBride’s brain
kesha says mcbride shot at close range: distance of less than 3 feet
kesha: no stippling..no evidence of soot.
kesha says stippling cannot be washed away
Kesha: McBride was coming down from the alcohol and marijuana in her system at time of death.
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McBride’s BOA level was nearly 3.5 the legal limit, says Kesha. cldn’t tell when she last smoked marijuana
kesha says peo. with mcbride’s blood alcohol level tend to be severely intox, slurred speech, disorient. staggering.
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Prosecutor gives autopsy report and body diagram to Kesha to authenticate; Kesha affirms
Kesha performed #RenishaMcBride autospy on November 2, 2013 beginning around 8:00am
Kesha did not speak with any police officers prior to the autopsy exam of #RenishaMcBride
Kesha is currently explaining the procedures of autopsies.
There was a shotgun wound, 3.5″ x 2″ just slightly left of middle of #RenishaMcBride face, ME Kesha testifies
Picture of wound below eyebrow, and above lips, shown to jurors. Many jurors have yellow legal pads and are writing.
Gunshot wound track:
-front to back
-right to left
Autopsy photos are being shown to the jury, but not to the family/others in the courtroom. #RenishaMcBride
Defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz, former Wayne County medical examiner, going up front to see photos
Kesha says projectiles and a wad were recovered from #RenishaMcBride brain
Kesha states the wound to brain was “so catastrophic” no way to tell if #RenishaMcBride had head injury from car crash
Kesha states that in addition to blood samples, fluid in/around eyeballs that tells you if a person is coming down or not.
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https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Kesha says best way to tell how #RenishaMcBride was affected is to ask the people who saw her last
Kesha says people with #RenishaMcBride BAL tend to be severely intoxicated, slurred speech, disoriented, staggering.
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( Sketch of shotgun wound to Renisha McBride’s face from autopsy report. )
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ok — so the mystery of the $100 bucks is solved. i really do not think the defense’s attempts at a ‘bombshell’ are going to amount to anything. it screams more of desperation than anything else. “i stepped in it” could mean about anything taken out of context and who the hell cares about the john/prostitute speculation?
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Yes, her mom gave it to her.
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Agreed, I over reacted based on the context that the alleged mishandling of the funds was brought up, my bad…. I will admit after the TM and the MD cases, I am a little gun shy about surprises and the competency of the legal system…
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with good reason, you did.
over reacting is something i try to avoid. i’ve found that it never helps me in personal or professional matters (especially as a woman) and i cannot see how it will benefit my well being on things like this — it just leads to anxiety.
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Point well taken, will now go sulking back to safety of my rock… 😉
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nooooooooooo, not back to your rock. we need you and your crust right here!
(i do love your new name.)
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I over reacted yesterday too. You were not alone :-* Have room under that rock for me? LOL
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he has room *and* pot roast. i say we meet at crusty’s rock 🙂
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Me luvs some pot roast! I´ll bring a salad and the crusty buttered buns!
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Of course I have room, and plenty of pot roast shortly! In retrospect it appears the defense was using the suggestion of possible acts on the part of the PD aimed at the press in an attempt to reach the jury thru a back door method… While I hope it did not plant the seed that the attorney threw out there, the possibility does exist. I do have an opinion on how this case will end, but think that I will wait until we know if TW will actually testify, and how well prepared his attorney has him for that testimony….
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crusty — the whole move reeked of desperation to me. i seriously think this is the best she’s got and as we are learning today, it ain’t much.
my dad’s pot roast (he did all the cooking, looked after the kids and cattle while maintaining his private CPA practice) was always in a dutch oven with very little water so that the potatoes carmelized. it was absolutely delicious. i make a good pot roast, but have never quite been able to duplicate his efforts.
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Why TW for allowing me to invite myself!
Hey, I´ll give her credit, she had me fooled for a min. I doubt it will stick with the jury, Prosec. cleared it up. Gurak also seemed to answer straight forward today since she pulled that one.
It is hard to tell if a Defendant will testify even if one is a legal professional. IMO she was setting him up to testify but she was banking on the character assassination of Renisha so the Prosecution would use cross to focus on Renisha not him. Often times that is what Defs. does because they are limited in what they can bring in, so what they do is repeat it by having Prosecutors bring it up.
Now, since she does not have that she is attempting to show what Wafer felt, thought, bringing in the numerous possibilites in why he felt that way. IMO, she won´t put him on now. If he gets up there, all she will do is so how irrational he was.
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LUNCH break for jurors.
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Dang it, and my pot roast is not quite done. It would seem that the judge would wait about another 1 1/2 hours to allow it to be done before she declares lunch… Now I know there is no justice in the world, even the judge is against my eating it for lunch…
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Oooh sounds so delicious. Yes, the court should have waited until your pot roast was done….carrots and potatoes with it? maybe even onions?
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Yes with carrots, taters and onions and cooked in mushroom gravy… slow cooked at 250 deg. until meat and the taters are done… Have home built biscuits ready to pop in the oven about 15 min before the roast is done (and real butter for the biscuits)! If I wasn’t so old and set in my ways I’d make a good house husband for some lucky woman… 🙂 Or perhaps that would be some unlucky victim…
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biscuits….BISCUITS….BUTTERED biscuits!
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that reminds me so much of my dearly departed father, who was likely way crustier than you. he lived 20 miles away, i visited often and he never let me leave until he had fed me, slipped a $20 into my hand and filled the gas tank. he would usually have to invent a reason to ask for a ride into town to do so. dang, i miss those visits — and not for all the nifty goodies, it was the conversation and dear companionship for us both.
enjoy your pot roast with all the trimmings, in spite of this capricious judge.
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Crusty,…..now you did it, I’m hungry, very hungry! I’m not much of a cook (never was) but I’ll bring a bottle of wine.
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another good source on twitter — @idabeewells. much of it is a repetitious, as you would expect, but occasionally she has something new or different to add.
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Thanks faux!
Here is the active link:
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Good Afternoon. I am late to the trial today. Going to catch up. Thanks again Yahtzee. I hope if I feel compelled to leave comment I won´t disrupt the flow.
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YW 🙂
No way to disrupt the flow (as you saw yesterday) Comment postings are welcomed.
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Glad to hear. This is the point of trial I have been waiting for. Was late today because I am catching up offline from a fixed SI joint that needed to rest.
All the misinformation, and unprofessional forensic interpretations these past few months really had me considering multiple senero´s on where Renisha was standing, the path of the shot (which I wrongly believed was on her right side because I read somewhere it was right to left, when that was the tajectory).
Glad to here the $100 mystery was solved. Glad to hear the explaination behind the initial investigation being determined as no robbery was taking place. Glad to hear the lack of importance of a foot print on the A/C unit.
All in all thus far, I do not see the Defense showing TW having a reasonable fear that evening. What I do see is his defense is taking a very similar approach to Wafer´s defenders whom have inserted illogical fears he may have had. Nothing his attys. have put out there is anything Wafer would have even thought about that evening! I do see there is no way Renisha was in any condition to make Wafer even contemplate he was “under siege”.
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It’s too bad that Wafer did not have a wife or live-in partner to talk some sense into him and keep him from going to the door with a gun but to call 911 instead.
Was he ever married?
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I have no clue if he was ever married.
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i don’t think he was married. he was the youngest of a passel of kids, somewhat of an outcast, never amounted to much, had several DUIs. he did have a girlfriend for a while a few years ago, she did not have much to say about him. sounds like he was the proverbial ‘quiet guy who kept to himself’.
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Those quiet ones are who you need to worry about.
I paid little attention about both Wafer & McBrides backgrounds as I personally feel it to be irrelevant in this case. Had she been attempting a buglary I may have delved into her background to understand why she took that path in life. As far as her partying? I don´t hold any opinion on her besides it was very stupid to drink and drive.
However, being a drunk at one point in time Wafer should had be able to notice this person was inebrated. I do not believe for one min. he had not attempted to look out his windows or his peephole to see who was out there. When someone knocks, bangs it is the natural thing to do.
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understood. i did not delve into either of their backgrounds, only recall a series of huffpost articles at the time of the incident. i don’t hold drinking or marijuana against anyone, even those at mcbride’s age. reality is that 70-80% of that age bracket will do so. i strongly condemn driving under the influence. i made the frequent statement on huffpost articles who wanted to condemn mcbride and give wafer a pass that there were in fact TWO criminal acts committed that night, one of them (wafer’s) was far more serious and that if he had not shot mcbride she would have been duly prosecuted for her own actions. i don’t think there is anything to gain in white washing her actions, the truth is the truth. however, the penalty for DUI is not death by shotgun blast to the head by unknown stranger. and that, is how i see this case.
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I agree with your entire comment. I tend to believe anyone can make whatever choices they feel fit in life. Natural consequences are the result. Some people confuse Natural consequence and a punishment they feel fit and deserved.
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Thanks for satisfying my curiosity about Wafer’s marital status, faux.
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Map of short distance (half-mile) between accident scene and Wafer’s home
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Thought I would bring these twitter links down here:
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
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I am avoiding that trial file one. They have a WP blog too. I advise you to not waste your time. Some moments in life you just can never get back!
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yeah they are a zimmerlover. I was gonna say something if their “incredibility” started showing! LMAO
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LoL. Not very hard to tell! 😛
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it’s hard to switch the mind from good pot roast to maggots, so i’ll apologize in advance.
i know there is no way that we will ever know what happened to mcbride in those 3 hours after the accident and before the shooting; all we can do is speculate. given the state of her drunkenness and potential head injury, i never figured that she did much in this time. it has always been my thoughts that she passed out in a dank alley somewhere. i have even begun to wonder if that is how she came into contact with maggots. i remember being her age and quite drunk after my high school graduation and falling asleep face down in a gravel pit. when you are in such a state, you don’t much care where you rest your head.
the story of the maggots has conflicts — some say it came from contaminated deer meat (what???) at the morgue, others say that did not happen. i just kind of wonder if they were already there but not noticed when she was put in a body bag.
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You are right. We will never know where she was after the accident, and prior to the shooting.
From the MEs office they state they do have flies at times due to the nature of some investigations. The weather at that time of year in Michigan would not have allowed maggots outside. I believe it was in the upper 40´s that evening.
As far as the maggots go related to evidence it is inconsequential and much adue about nothing. State has to prove this was not self defense case. They must prove Wafer was not in fear of death or great bodily harm and the killing was unjustified.
Thus far, the defense has made claims to the jury which the prosecution has shown evidence of that did not nor could not have existed. Maggots have nothing to do with Wafer´s claim of self defense. Where Renisha was before the shooting has nothing to do with Wafer´s claim of self defense. I am unfazed. If her body was dumped or we did not know who killed her then the maggots would mean something.
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Wow look at these postings by TrialFile:
The Trial File @TheTrialFile
Wake me up when they’re done questioning ME Kesha
(Borrrringggg)
and
The Trial File @TheTrialFile · now
Prosecution failed to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt.
I’m predicting hung or acquittal
(Subject to change)
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Is that a GZer? Lol. Sure. I heard the same thing….during the Dunn trial. Opinions really are like buttholes huh?
That is quite a prediction!
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Yeah that it a staunch zimmerlover @trialfile they love to ridicule Trayvon & Renisha to their buddies on twitter who collectively have like 5 DUIs between them.
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thanks, danny. i forget that i am in a very different climate here in northern CA’s central valley. it gets up to 123 deg in summer, is still in the 100s in october. novermber it cools slightly and if we’re lucky, we get some rain. we experienced maggots well into that period back on the ranch where i grew up.
i would agree that for the purposes of the investigation and prosecution, that the maggot thing is not a huge deal. all that needs to be proved is that mcbride died from a gunshot wound that came from wafer’s gun and that he pulled the trigger. as a juror, i might have some concern about cross contamination issues, but it is irrelevant to the case.
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I lived in Socal up until 3 years ago. East coast now. Last fall and winter was a doozie weather wise. Living near farms now we have tons of flies. I have those fly traps around the house. Similar to bettle traps. They go dormant around October depending on weather. Def. dormant by November. Again, dependant on weather. Inside they can continue a life cycle. We had flies and ladybugs inside the first year we moved back. This was because of an A/C hose they entered. Then bred in the vents. which also heats the house. That was fixed! 😉
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I submit Renisha was sitting somewhere whining and crying trying to figure out how much trouble she’s gonna be in for the wreck w.DUI. she was trying to sober up., but she was miserable. she was worried about getting arrested worried about how bad her parents are gonna kill her. she sat somewhere, maybe on someone else’s porch, or behind someone’s car in a drive way..she maybe passed out a little and/or cried with her head in her hands. it started to rain i think and she woke up or got up and started to walk home..
basically the wreck did sober her enough to realize she was in trouble and she was trying to figure a way to get home before cops got there. she came back to the car once I think right? probably because she was cold wishing she could laydown in it & to see if her phone worked or get something in the car…but left again hoping for some miracle.
she would’ve been in trouble but she should’ve been alive to get in it and learn her lesson this time. this POS murder will only get like 18yrs if convicted for blowing her head literally off. he needs to go down and I think he will. I think this case is will result in a conviction as it should.
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i agree — this lines up fairly consistently to what i have said from the beginning. renisha was damn lucky that she was the only one injured in that car crash. had she lived, she would have been in all kinds of trouble, but was not afforded the opportunity to grow and learn from her mistakes.
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oralandar brand-wms @oralandar_DN · 25s
court back in session..def atty wants to know how the pros knew about $100 . pros now says mcbride’s parents thought wafer had her i.d.
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pros told parents that was not true. def atty says she wanted that info as part of discovery in trial
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jury coming in
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Continuing testimony of Assistant Wayne County Medical Examiner Dr. Kilak Kesha:
Dr. Kesha back on stand now..def atty cross-examining him
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def atty shows pic of mcbride’s left hand but pros objects saying it was not admitted..judge orders it taken down..
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense asking ME Kesha Asking if he had all the facts about what happened to #RenishaMcBride on the night of 11/1 & Early morning of 11/2
ME Kesha states that’s not necessary in some cases; it’s on a case by case basis
ME Kesha said details of night/early morning did not change his determination of manner and cause of death for #RenishaMcBride
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attys now going through their photos to see if pic was admitted into dvid
def atty asking kesha if he took pic of mcbride’s hands prior to autopsy: he says “no reason to do it..there were no injuries”
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense attorney shows a picture of #RenishaMcBride left hand but prosecutor objects saying it was not admitted
This trial is rapidly turning into a kangaroo court.
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I am surprise that a reporter (trial files) in the courtroom is giving an opinion.
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Lol. We need at least one objective reporter to make fun of!
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def pointing pic back up on overheard of mcbride’s left hand with trail of blood on left hand..says photo does not indicate swelling
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense atty asking Kesha if he took a photo of #RenishaMcBride hands prior to autopsy.
Kesha: “No reason to do it..there were no injuries”
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kesha says mcbride’s BAO legal limit for someone 21 ..for a 19 yr old like mcbride she was 11 times over the legal limit
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Defense atty is showing photographs of #RenishaMcBride body (specifically hands)
Def asks if Kesha washed body
Kesha says he cleaned body
Def asked if body was photographed b4 washed/cleaned
Kesha answers no, didn’t think it was necessary, no visible injuries other than head
Kesha says to defense atty “you have my report”
A photograph is shown of left hand of #RenishaMcBride, it has drop of blood on it
Def asks: where it came from
Kesha says: it is fresh
Defense asks if it is a fresh/new *wound* Kesha says no, it couldve come from the GSW, a nosebleed.
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This Defense atty. has some testicles. Hey “Everyone disregard that gapping hole in this women´s face while I attempt to move your attention to her hand that was bleeding at the accident site.”
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kesha says he did not see a $100 bill on mcbride..he says pockets of deceased are turned inside out, per policy
mcbride’s knee length black boots shown overhead..they have torn sold [SOLE] on one of them
Kesha says at least 10 pellets taken from mcbride’s body
https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Def asks if Kesha can tell, based on #RenishaMcBride age, weight and height, how many shots of alcohol to get to 3x legal limit
Says pockets of deceased are turned inside out (per policy)
Defense now asking main text that Kesha relies on – DiMaio
Def asks about Spitzer’s book, Kesha is familiar with it, but doesn’t rely on it
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Mandi Wright:
Dr. Kesha shown #RenishaMcBride boots that were taken into evidence.
kesha says no evidence of close range “discharge” but that she was shot at distance of 3 feet or less..no soot, no gun powder on her face
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I would think at 180 pounds that she might tolerate alcohol better than a thinner woman. But women’s livers don’t process as well as men’s. And by all indications of the missing hours, she may have been passed out nearby somewhere. And just coming too and seeking help. Don’t expect help from a loser : /
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I had actually researched that and must concur with you.
The testimony is confusing because legal limits and tolerance are two different issues.
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at 5’10” and 180, i can (but no longer) drink with the best of them. i can drink a six pack and still appear functional, but would never drive. i’d just be guessing, but at her BAC at time of death, i would guess 6-8 drinks over 2-3 hours. she obviously had more on board at one point though.
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def atty cross exam Kesha on marijuana found in her blood
defense done. re-direct by prosecution
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Dr. Kesha done testifying.
“People rests”
…jury out for quick break
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When jury returns- – – ->
The Trial File @TheTrialFile
First witness coming up for the defense is former Wayne County medical examiner Spitz
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The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 58s
#TheodoreWafer defense is RIGHT NOW moving to drop all charges.
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https://twitter.com/TheTrialFile
Prosecution says #TheodoreWafer was armed, went to the door, opened it and struck #RenishaMcBride square in the face
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Pros says Wafer was armed, went to the door, opened it and struck Ms. McBride square in the face; says that fits element they need to prove
Judge states per instructions to jury, abundance of evidence presented for murder 2, 2nd degree murder; judge says she believes a jury
would find that the people Pros met their burden of proof for that count
Judge says enough evidence presented thus far favors the people, a jury could come back with a ruling for count 2, involuntary manslaughter.
Judge denies Def request for a directed verdict.
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Judge says Spitzer can talk in general terms about what
a person experiences, goes through physiologically, facing danger; cannot testify as to what Wafer went thru because he was not there
at moment Wafer was going through that
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Was expecting this today. Jury will deliberate!
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yahtzee quotes trialfile
this alone displays the level of ignorance of this poster if he/she does not know that this is a routine motion when the prosecution rests. i feel better off ignoring such horseshit.
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Well that prediction just went down the drain. Remember Yahtzee this is a Sluther! A Sluther with a seat.
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judge tells def. witness Dr. Spitz he can only testify in general terms . can’t testify on fear of impending doom’s psych. impact on body
oralandar brand-wms @oralandar_DN · 3s
asst wayne county pros athina siringas fighting against Dr. Spitz talking about psychological aspects of fear and impending doom.
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Judge thinks an opinion by this witness would be improper re: Wafer’s 911 call, state of mind; says its a jury call
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The impending doom was all Renisha’s. : /
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dr. werner spitz on stand
spitz is defense 1st witness. he’s a forensic pathologist. has testified in many cases..lots of high-profile trials across country
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Wit is 87 years old, just performed autopsy a couple of days ago; attended med school 1946-50, and 1950-53. Has worked in training schools
and testified before congress re John F. Kennedy assassinationMandi Wright
@DetroitMandi
Forensic Pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz testifies for defense
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https://twitter.com/idabeewellsdr.
did not perform autopsy on Kenneday, “spoke to” dr who performed autopsy; witness begins to talk about Kennedy autopsy, Pros object; Def
thinks its important for jury not only to know wit qualifications but a gunshot autopsy should be conducted; def asks for 2 more minutes
spitz is 87 year old..he just performed one a couple of days ago, he says “i’m working..i’m not retired.” he’s performed 60,000autopsies
Dr. Spitz offered his expert opinion on JFK assassination research : did not examine the late president post-mortem
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Wit is the former med examiner for Wayne County; def asks if it is important for a med examiner to have a knowledge of ballistics;
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July, 1972 – Sept/Oct, 1988, dates when Spitz was chief med exam for Wayne County
Wit is board certified in forensic pathology, since 1961
spitz teaches pathology at wayne state university
spitz going to talk about fear and fear of impending doom. pros siringas objects now to say spitz can only talk about physiological response
says def atty trying to slip in ques. about psychological response
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Def asks what witness knows of case of #RenishaMcBride; says he has looked at report of Klesha as well as toxicology report
spitz looking at mcbride autopsy photos..he says he reviewed a lot of pics..def atty talks about his work on case
dr. spitz says he’s spent approx 40-50 hrs on wafer case
spitz talking about mcbride tox. report
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Here is a post (tells what prosecution was objecting to)
Def now asking Wit what physiology is so jury can understand physiology re “flight or fight”, fear, etc.
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pros objects to spitz beginning test. about line of questioning..she says the def trying to “backdoor” into ques on psych. response of fear
judge now asks: “describe the things the body goes through”
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Judge admonishes Def to just ask questions straight out; Def concurs; asks what is relationship of fear to physiology;
Blood pressure goes up, pupils dilate; bowels move much faster than usual
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Sooooo……did the police check Wafer’s pants when they arrived at the scene???
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as the husband and i used to say with 2 little ones still in diapers
“pants check on aisle 2, i repeat, aisle number 2”
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🙂
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Def asks “does fear highjack a body” Wit says autonomic system, we don’t think about this, it just happens; Judge asks Def to move on with
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line of questioning; pros objects to one more question,
sidebar called
(from https://twitter.com/idabeewells)
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FYI this Dr. testified for defense during the Casey Anthony trial.
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oh…
hmm
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I will with confidence predict this Dr. states the autopsy was unfinished, done wrong, or testify to things that should have been done that were not that are irrelvant to the injuries.
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very impressed with the prosecution here. defense is attempting to insert evidence on wafer’s behalf via this highly qualified expert. notice the constant objections and judge ruling in prosecution’s favor.
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yes
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July, 1972 – Sept/Oct, 1988, dates when Spitz was chief med exam for Wayne County
Wit is board certified in forensic pathology, since 1961
spitz teaches pathology at wayne state university
spitz going to talk about fear and fear of impending doom. pros siringas objects now to say spitz can only talk about physiological response
says def atty trying to slip in ques. about psychological response
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ooops
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Def asks what witness knows of case of #RenishaMcBride; says he has looked at report of Klesha as well as toxicology report
spitz looking at mcbride autopsy photos..he says he reviewed a lot of pics..def atty talks about his work on case
dr. spitz says he’s spent approx 40-50 hrs on wafer case
spitz talking about mcbride tox. report
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pros. objects to def atty “leading ques” judge says they are not
Def now asking how many shots of vodka would #RenishaMcBride would have had to get to a blood alcohol level of 2.18
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Wit says amount had to be consumed within one hour
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spitz says he addresses BAC in his book.
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Wit says amount had to be consumed within one hour
Wit says person of #RenishaMcBride’s size “could not take” consuming that in that time period; had to be consumed over
over a longer period of time
spitz says the more alcohol a person drinks the less inhibitions and judgement they have …
he says loss of coordination occurs too..
spitz says person does not lose their strength with higher amts of alcohol
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Don’t most people know this or do they have to read Spitz’s book to learn this??
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What does strength have to do with this case anyways? Oh I get it! Renisha was strong enough to move clips from a locked screen door after 15 minutes of banging on a door? So after she removed that screen she could have what? Broken through a wooden door. In the meantime Ted Wafer decided to help her out and opened his door. Silly me.
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so a person would be staggering. loss of judgement also
def atty asking spitz about spiderweb crack on windshield of mcbride’s car. talks about the car accident
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Wit says impact crack in #RenishaMcBride’s car was an impact of the head
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I believe it is widely known (or should be) already that air bags and seat belts are used to lower death toll, but are not meant to prevent all injuries such as head impacts into windshields. Whoever believes air bags prevent head impacts into windshields are idiots. Had to say that!
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Def gives Wit a photo of #RenishaMcBride, post mortem. Says you can see a bruise to forehead area, small but visible, between eyes/brows
on right side of forehead, compares it to a half dollar (i think)
Wit says #RenishaMcBride suffered from a concussion; Def asks if these three factors – marijuana, alcohol and concussion – can alter a
person’s behavior; says it all contributes to a person acting outside of their normal selves; it would all act together; reducing ability
2 put forth good judgment, inhibitions, etc. Def asks what is greatest contributor 2 #RenishaMcBrides demeanor that night; Wit says alcohol
spitz did not do autopsy on mcbride wld have had to consume 11 shots of liquor or bottles of beer to arrive at her BAC
now looking at pic of mcbride’s left hand and says it “looks swollen to me”..fresh trail of blood on her left hand that comes from the hand
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spitz says he wld have cut into the lft handt.”we’re doing an autopsy for a purpose.the purp. to leave no leaf unturned.”
says he would have cut/examined the hand to be thorough; says there would have been a larger bruise underneath her skin
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says such a procedure would have been very simple, very quick, and he would have done it had he been doing the autopsy; says the blood trail
present on #RenishaMcBride’s did not come from shotgun blast, came from her hand
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I need a break…….
Here are the two twitter sites:
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“spitz says he wld have cut into the lft handt.”we’re doing an autopsy for a purpose.the purp. to leave no leaf unturned.”
THERE IT IS FOLKS!
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ok, so ‘mr expert’ wants us to believe that the left hand WAS the burglary tool. it was swollen, bloody, possibly bruised and belonged to a drunk black woman. ah ha!! he’s solved the case
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ahh, yes, there it is. mr expert says the hand injuries that the ME never even saw occurred at wafer’s house — not from anything that occurred in the car crash or missing three hours. smdh
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I have not seen the hand injury. I must assume since it is such a big deal it may have not been a minor one? Maybe during the defense case (since we now know this will go to jury unless…well.. defense has something else to delay their clients day in court)
I would assume, however, I much doubt the defense has more proof that hand injury occured on Wafer´s door(s). Had the defense had such proof with todays dismissal request it would have been revealed. We also would not have heard much about what LE did not collect for Wafer!
Wafer had 3 doors. One in front with a screen door. One on the side, and a 3rd door on the side.
Let us remember. Wafer claimed he thought he was under siege and people were coming to break in to rob him. That is exactly what LE investigated. There was no evidence of forced entry anywhere. Instead what they found was a dead women on his porch with the shooter exclaiming someone was pounding on his door and how he shot by accident, because what else should he think(his words not mine). When police arrived they found no forced entry. What they found was a locked front screen door with the screen dislodged, Screen door clips, gun in entrance. Locked side door.
As for the locked screen door? We heard much about this. The handle was not even broken, the lock intact. What about the main door? The door Wafer opened to shoot Renisha as she stood there looking slightly to her left as he opened the door and shot her in the face? She was not even looking to Wafer´s front window to her right.
She was a mere 5´4, door handle of the (dropped) screen not even face level!
Now some reading may not like this reality, but we are all listening, as we should be.
That man opened the door and shot an unsuspecting girl in the face because he irrationally determined he was under siege by boogeymen who were not there. We see it by his defense, not speculating here!
The only comfort here in these proceedings is I know Renisha didn´t even know what hit her. Wafer on that evening prior to him lawyering up told the honest to God´s truth. He opened that door and shot a women in the face that he thought was a burglar. He was wrong. Now. He must face the consequence for his actions.
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Bunch of BS – do people generally knock on doors at 4:00 am before breaking in? Just that alone makes no sense. AFAIK (and I have been working so unable to really follow this), he NEVER said it sounded like someone was breaking into his house – he said it sounded like knocking on all the doors – who does that before breaking in?
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I will say this… For your saftey. Burglers do knock to see if you are home first. If you answer they will say they have the wrong house if they were mistaken. Wafers lights were on at 4 am per his statemeng. I must say this as well… I fall asleep with lights on too. I doubt I would be subjected to a robbery at 4am due to that when I am a clear minority in giving a shit about my light bill. May well be a target for those in need but I have upper windows and plenty of phones and I kinda am not antisocial with my neighbors.
I have no screen door. I have many doors though. I have two main entrances and one where I am damn well sure had I have to stop someone from coming in when I retreat to save my life I can blast away at least 8 of them while on the phone!
If someone knocks. They try to get in? I will call the cops and if the SOB enters they will be dead way inside my house where they never were invited. As far as a TV take it. I got great freaking insurance!
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Airbags are notorious for causing hand injuries.
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I left my speculative reply below. But, the evidence and witness statements show tje hand injury occured in her car!
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court is adjourning for the day. 9 am tomorrow more with the dr spitz.
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What the defense is missing with hand thing (I hope the jury picked this up) is blood was found in Renisha´s car, witness stated she saw the injury. Therefore the injury was from the car accident. 2. Had she been drinking an hr. within she may have well left with the bottle from her house. A 5th is small. Pocket size. She may as well left the scene of the accident and sat in an alley finishing it off thinking she was in deep doo doo when she went home not even realizing she had head or hand injury. Maybe passed out for some time.
This could account for the BAC. This could account for why her hand wound was not addressed. This could account for her confusion on where she was and the missing time.
Of course I am speculating.
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Well, we know she wasn’t confrontational or noisy during the missing time or people would have heard her and reported her.
Probably blacked out or slept for those 3 hours or so.
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a 5th (or four) fit quite nicely in the sides of boots … not that i would know of course .. cough cough (rolling stones concerts) nope, i know nothing about it. ok, ok, my dad taught me that trick. works best with cowboy boots, but can be modified to suit one’s needs.
your speculation seems to align quite nicely with my own, if that counts for anything 🙂
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5ths are nice when you go underage anywhere. Diners when you order a coke. Walking by your parents in your coat. Hell take a few shots stick it under the bed frame! I wuldn´t know about that though. 😉 I would have done exactly what I said if I did that at 19! My Mom would have left me sit in jail and my friends would have turned my ass in !
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There is even the possibility (very remote however) that she had been on TW’s porch passed out and woke up not knowing where she was and started to knock (abet hard) on the door… We don’t know where she was and how long she had been on the porch before TW shot thru the locked door as he murdered her… I’ll state as I have several times before, that due to the actions and non actions of TW I do not think he killed/murdered Mz. McBride in fear but out of anger that someone was on his porch at that time of the morning and ruining his sleep… I hope the Pros asks this high priced expert witness to explain the difference in body chemistry between fear and anger… If he is honest he will have to admit they are virtually identical and would be impossible to tell apart… without witnessing the individual during the episode…
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I would not know. I would have called the cops.Waited for entry. He didn´t live in middle of nowhere. He never called cops until after he shot a girl in her face.
Watch this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=o_bhp-_e_D8
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All I can say after listening to that poor lady as she is on the phone is that she did what she was told to do, exactly. Too bad TW did not call 911, if he had Mz. McBride would still be alive. Thanks for the link…
PS: I saved you some Pot Roast and a few biscuits… 😉
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There is no way that Spitz could know if Renisha had a concussion from the car crash, but I bet you that the defense will say that the concussion changed her behavior…..
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yahtzee, I would bet money that this man would have testified that he could tell from the photo of Zimmerman that his nose was broken in ten places, and the “major cuts” on the back of his head were from where Travon in a super human episode picked up the sidewalk and hit him… The only thing that they have actually said to this point is that the swelling in the hands was from beating on the door. Now note, he did not say it was from that only that it could have been from that. That premise was hammered home (inaccurately at best) when he stated that “swelling comes on very quickly”, well perhaps it does, but the question that needs to be asked to rebut that will be, how quickly does the swelling go down? As has been mentioned the swelling is most likely due to the injuries from the accident, I’ll have to look at the photo’s of the door again, but I don’t see (in my mind) how the injuries, because of their locations, could have been done by beating on the door or area around it… Feel free to correct me if I am wrong…
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Well, the M.E. who actually looked at her hand, saw no swelling or injury.
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Tomorrow will be another interesting day in this trial, but I don’t think that we will find out if TW will testify until either late tomorrow afternoon or Friday morning. While I hope he will take the stand, I actually don’t think he will. The defense has already hinted that he might not take the stand, and IMO the reason that they don’t want him to is that he is a weak minded person and by that I don’t mean he is stupid, but instead unable to reasonably control his own responses and words and he is likely to hang himself if given the opportunity… I realize that he does not have to take the stand in his own defense, and the jury is instructed to not think he does not take it because he is guilty, but then again jurors are human and if he does not they will question in their own minds why he refused… At this stage, I think (if we have an honest jury) the state has made an excellent case for Manslaughter at the minimum, I really don’t think they have raised their proof to the 2nd degree level as of yet, perhaps they will pull that off in their rebuttal… Unlike many of you here I don’t think he is guilty of 2nd degree murder, I think he murdered Mz. McBride intentionally in a fit of raging anger over being awaken from his sleep… but as I said that is my opinion….
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I really haven’t watched more than three or four trials. How often does a defendant take the stand?
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yahtzee, In the movies quite frequently, in real life very seldom due to the risk it poses if they do not have the charisma that makes their testimony seem plausible to the jury… How does that old saying go? Better to look stupid than to open your mouth and prove you are stupid? Actually, in ways one could almost feel sorry for the person on trial, if the testify and do so poorly they hang, if they don’t testify they hang, a very hard position to be in especially if the person is not guilty of the crime they are accused of….
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@Crustyolemoth” “Unlike many of you here I don’t think he is guilty of 2nd degree murder, I think he murdered Mz. McBride intentionally in a fit of raging anger over being awaken from his sleep… but as I said that is my opinion….”
If you believe he killed Renisha in a fit of rage rather than in a fit of irrational fear, then I think you meant to say that you think he is in fact guilty of murder 2 not manslaughter?
Isn’t Manslaughter like recklessness, knowing your actions could cause harm but not necessarily meaning to kill?
or the intention to kill someone w/o premeditation or malice like in the heat of the moment type thing or being provoked like if someone punches you but you get so mad you shoot them in retaliation? but it’s not a reasonable response it’s unreasonable and only a mitigating factor?
Murder is with malice, w/or w/o premeditation & w/o reasonable provocation?
at least that’s my understanding. and that’s why I think he committed murder 2 easily. he got the gun and shot someone who’s just knocking on his door not actually breaking in.
his defense is fear. but if you’re saying he was angry not in fear, then his reaction to his anger is completely unreasonable.
if he was in fear, he’s entitled to be in fear if he wants, even if his fear was unreasonable. but his action to his unreasonable fear was also unreasonable. he’s not entitled to those unreasonable actions.
just a thought. 🙂
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shannoninmiami, Good morning. Sorry to be slow in responding to your comment. I based my thoughts of him being guilty of murder one, not simply because of his anger, but because IMO he went to the door with the full intent of killing who ever it was disturbing his slumber. It, again IMO, could have been a child, a white man, or even a police officer, that person had to die per his mindset. They had committed the ultimate crime, disturbed his sleep and forced him to take action… Again, because (IMO) he went to the door with murder in his intent he is guilty of 1st degree murder… My logic may very well be flawed, as I am (sort of) human and subject to being wrong at times (perhaps too many times), I don’t mind admitting that I make mistakes in my perceptions of what has occurred on occasion, and my opinion is not the one that really matters, the one that truly matters is that of each and every juror sitting and deciding the murderers fate…
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Why would a gun owner in fear for his life, take a gun he thinks is not loaded, open a door to confront 3 people who are trying to break into his house? To scare them and hope they aren’t armed and armed and shot him?
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Dreamer,
As Judge Judy would say, “It doesn’t make sense and if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.”
That applies to Wafer’s story. It doesn’t make sense because it’s not true.
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Here are the rest of the reporters’ tweets where I left of with Spitz on the stand:
Wit also says a small dark spot on #RenishaMcBride’s hand is an abrasion; says another abrasion is present
Wit says a person does not continue to swell after death, blood must continue to circulate. Swelling present on #RenishaMcBride’s hand
occurred before she died. Def asks if Wit saw right hand of #RenishaMcBride. Says photos provided are not the best, but can see swelling
on right hand also; we’ve just lost the feed in the media room
we’re back up; in mid sentence; i think the wit said hand swelling/injuries occurred a Wafer’s house … no shotgun … not car accident
Pros asks to approach
Court is adjourning for today; jury is dismissed
Pros asks to approach bench; wit Spitz can leave; not sure if he is coming back tomorrow or not.
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TrialFile
Dr. Spitz testifies using napkin that #RenishaMcBride autopsy should be more revealing of her skull.
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Mandi Wright @DetroitMandi
Asst. Prosecutor Athina Siringas objects that Dr. Werner [Spitz] not qualified to answer what fear is.
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I am hell bent of figuring out my reply issue. I am getting replies. Just have issue replying on my end. Just so you know. Not ignoring you.
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I am a bit foresically impatient again. I do not anticipate white socks on a broken sole will come up during defense testimony. Unless Renisha was so strong she ripped the sole of her own boot to show off Wafer who was peeping out the door hole.
I suspect (and maybe we may have testimony but doubt it) Renisha was facing the door her body positioned to the left. The blast which was between less than 3 in. no more than 8 in that produced the wad in her brain and majority of pellets the force twisted her body to the right from the force. Her shoe ripped and she landed where we saw the photo.
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I think that is a strong possibility as far as her shoe.
Because her white sock was not dirty, it could have happened as a stumble during her wanderings before arriving at Wafer’s porch.
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I doubt a stumble on his porch produced a sole like that on her own accord without injury. I really do not want to put shot gun injury wounds on this blog. I spoke about wads on Ms. Nosey pants blog way back. The wad of a shell is prior to pellets leaving the shell. He had 4 buck shot. The more pellets the smaller they are. I have slugs for my shot gun. Look it up.
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I have been careful Xena knowing your blog is a target. But found you sweetie are a direct result of conversation elsewhere in what I mention . I am going to change my name. I need to export my posts first. Give me a few days. In the mean time God speed on your health. I could never imagine open threads here. 😉
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Danny, do what you feel is best for you. As for me, I’ve been the target of their conversations for almost 2 years now, even before this blog was opened and I was posting comments on other blogs. To them, a day without Xena is a day without sunshine. 🙂
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What I do is has little to do with what they do. What they do is only one step closer for what I am capable of doing Xena. I speak on my terms. I do on my terms. And I have time.
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Let me put it this way Xena. I am not interested in what they say about me. It is how it comes about. I have not been as careless as some have subjected me to. I am okay with that as well even had I been “careless”.
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There is no way this is self defense no way this is manslaughter this is straight murder I will explain.
The moment McBride knocked on that door or banged on the door as Wafer states, Wafer was then behind two locked doors a screen door and a main door. He had his shot gun in hand. The man had no reason to open that door he could have or should have called 911 posted up and waited for Law enforcement to arrive.
at that point if someone broke into his house he could have then used deadly force, There was no reason for Wafer to open his door like that, how can he go from stating it was an accident to now claiming it was self defense?
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