Juror In Dunn’s Case Interviews With ABC News
Michael Dunn
Convicted of 3 Counts of
2nd Degree Attempted Murder
Hat-tip to Mindyme62
ABC reports an exclusive interview with Juror Number 4, the home healthcare employee. Known as Valerie, she told ABC News that the issue of self-defense forced the jury into an immediate deadlock and prompted some shouting matches.
Valerie old ABC that the issue of self-defense forced the jury into an immediate deadlock. That led to some shouting matches. Valerie, who wanted a murder conviction, says the group knew within the first hour that they would be unable to reach a unanimous decision on the first count.
The first vote was 2 undecided; 2 believing Dunn was justified, and 8 believing in his guilt. That vote later changed to 10 to 2 with 10, including Valerie, believing that Dunn is guilty of murdering 17-year-old Jordan Davis, and two believing that Dunn was justified.
“We looked at a lot of evidence – and myself, it was where the gunshots were, the timing. Could he have had other options? To me, [the shooting] was unnecessary.”
Despite the disagreement over whether shooting Davis was justified, all the jurors agreed that Dunn escalated the situation,and that based on Dunn’s testimony, most of the jurors saw that his ego is what caused the situation. Valerie told ABC that she believes that Dunn had other options, including rolling up his window, parking elsewhere, or simply ignoring the loud music.
Valerie wants the world to know that the jurors valued the life of Jordan Davis.
With the majority of the jury believing that Dunn’s killing of Jordan Davis was unjustified, this is good news for State prosecutors who have stated that they will re-try Dunn on the 1st degree murder charge.
Posted on 02/19/2014, in Jordan Davis and tagged #4, deadlock, Jordan Davis, Juror, Michael Dunn, Valerie. Bookmark the permalink. 90 Comments.
We Hold These Truths To Be Self-Evident 
I hope this brings some comfort to the family of Jordan Davis. I do see a conviction on the re-trial.
Ya know, Jon Stewart’s comedic take on this, made me think of a few things I hadn’t thought of before. Like Done said he has a sensitive ear, yet chose to park beside the SUV after stating to Rhonda that he hated that music (one of the witnesses stated he didn’t because he didn’t want to deal with the music). Firing the shots at the SUV had to hurt Done’s ‘sensitive’ ear.. and he chose to do that to himself.
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mindyme62,
I hope so too.
It was said that the SUV parked just over the line so that when Dunn parked next to it, the doors were so close that he could not get out and that is why he gave Rhonda money to go into the store. By the same logic, it means that Jordan could not have opened his door. At re-trial, the State needs to ask Rhonda why Dunn did not go into the store himself.
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I thought it had came out at some point that Rhonda was driving… Probably not though, not sure where I got that thought from.
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No, she was never driving.
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Reblogged this on The ObamaCrat™.
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Jueseppi,
Good afternoon friend! Thanks for the support.
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Good afternoon, so when U get time, give me your opinion of this juror, Valerie.
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Yes, I also hope this brings some well-deserved relief to Jordan’s family.
This juror is one brave lady and I’m really glad she spoke up!
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Two sides,
Yes! She also presented herself intelligently with a good understanding of the law; that self-defense is not a defense for initial aggressors.
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I don’t see how Jordan’s parents are supposed to find relief in the fact that three jurors accepted Dunn’s self-defense argument, believing that Dunn was justified in shooting their son. Not one holdout, THREE. 25% indefensible, irrational racial bigotry. Not good news.
Well, so much for the oddly optimistic widely repeated speculations that the jury had hung over the different levels of the murder charge…
The number of votes for self-defense makes me think that even if the prosecution had done a better job of connecting the dots in the physical evidence to refute Dunn’s BS story, the racist dungholes in the box would not have been persuaded. So either we’re looking at a voir dire fail by Corey et. al., or it’s just not possible for a Black victim to get justice for crimes commited by a White defendant in Florida. Stomach turning either way.
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You have it nailed. A racist stealth juror will never budge.I doubt even video of thne event from a camera looking across Duuhhnn’s hood into the Dodge would not suffice.
Sick……
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I think this verdict and the breakdown she described on the mistried count is a clear indicator of the racism that still exists in the state of Florida and in the United States in general.
You actually had 3 jurors that actually believed what Dunn made up about the shotgun??? If Dunn believed that he had done nothing wrong, he never would have refused to call 911. What part of that is so confusing to the 3 imbeciles that actually refused to allow the evidence to aid in their decision.
We all know if Dunn had been black and the boys had been white, the verdicts would’ve been unanimous. Guilty on all counts. I’ll bet that the 3 votes against were white males, just like Dunn. Harsh but true.
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Jay,
Welcome to Blackbutterfly7.
I understand that two of the jurors who voted not guilty on count 1 are women. The one juror who started off undecided but was subsequently persuaded to their side was done so by their argument. The same would be true for the other undecided juror — that juror was persuaded of Dunn’s guilt by other jurors.
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Xena, they went with the horrible part where if you feel threatened , you can self defend. That is the part of Florida! and 26 other states, that is so terrifying. No duty to retreat if you’re not the instigator.
Corey told jurors read p.25 go with that.
The question I have is why we were NOT allowed to watch jury voir as NRA has classes in how to get on a jury.
In tubs’s case, we were NOT shown the jury instructions discussed and sorted out BETWEEN just the attorneys and Judge. We saw this in Dunn trial.
Mark Geragos said everything! everything is “pre-digested before being presented. His example was Corey had to know and agree to rouer testimony and yet allowed her to testify knowing Dunn could not follow with any testimony.
So in one high profile case, we see jury voir but not the hashing out of what is and is not going to be given to jury as instructions.
In the next high profile case, we see jury instructions hashed out between attorneys and judge but not the voir of jury.
We know tubs trial was thrown by our crooked gov. And state
Was Dunn’s trial rigged too so a sleuth NRA jurists could get on jury?
This will come out. If they purposely hid jury questioning to hide NRA sleuth, they were so mistaken to think it’ll be fine. We are finding him guilty and locking him away. Everyone will be punch drunk with glee.
They are getting ready to discover how sadly mistaken they were.
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2dogsonly,
I think it was Strolla who said that during closing argument.
Having voir dire broadcasted limits questions and answers to questions to protect the identity and privacy of potential jurors. Remember during Zimmerman’s trial that one juror was publicly humiliated when a comment he posted on Facebook came up, and he was doxed because of it? The privacy of potential jurors should be protected and during voir dire, there is much that comes out that does reveal their identity. Also in Zimmerman’s case, one potential juror mentioned she worked at a school across from the Retreat at Twin Lakes.
I posted the jury instructions submitted in Zimmerman’s case. They were available before closing arguments, but I didn’t get a chance to post them until July 12th. https://blackbutterfly7.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/zimmerman_final_jury_instructions.pdf
That’s because Rhonda’s final testimony was during the State’s rebuttal and also because Dunn lied during his testimony. Had he not said that he told Rhonda about seeing a shotgun, there would have been no purpose of calling Rhonda back to the stand.
I tend to disagree. Going over O’Mara’s voir dire of Juror B37, followed by her literary agent’s statement and her AC360 interview, it is my position that no matter what prosecutors did or didn’t do, Juror B37 was placed on that jury to lead them to acquit Zimmerman. I also come to this conclusion based on the jury’s foreperson not submitting a more specific question to clarify manslaughter and half an hour later, reaching a verdict WITHOUT that clarification.
With the first vote being 10 to 2 with 10 voting guilty of murder, I can’t say that the trial was rigged. Two jurors were undecided and that number became split at the end. While the defense gained one juror to agree with self-defense, the prosecution gained one juror to agree it was murder.
That’s good news for the State because the majority of the jury did believe that Dunn did not kill Jordan in self-defense.
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2dogs…..I am a Life member of the NRA and I have never received nor was ever notified of any training of how to get on a jury. This is just not true. The NRA has several training classes but they all have to do with gun safety and instruction and becoming a Certified Instructor. Never at any time was I ever given any instruction on how to get on a jury nor have I given instruction on that……and I hold several Instructor ratings.
Just because a murder happens with a gun does not mean the NRA supports it, while I didn’t hear their position on this case I do know that they did not support Zimmerman.
And this is one NRA Life member who feels that both Zimmerman and Dunn are guilty.
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This is the longer version on how to get on a jury to protect our rights. There is one where they train members as to exactly how to answer questions so they can slip in undetected.l
Click to access Juror_Handbook.pdf
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This was not a NRA publication but rather from a FORMER NRA board member. The pamphlet didn’t say how to answer a question but rather refuse to answer on the basis that the constitution doesn’t allow for intrusive questions into a juror’s life.
The main discussion was not in getting a person off but by voting not guilty will force the government into repealing what is considered an unfair law.
“Any Citizen when serving on a jury, if he KNOWS his rights and duties as a juror, can in the case he is on, stop the
government cold if he believes the statute to be unconstitutional or unfair simply by voting not guilty.”
Funny, but after reading this paper, he is calling for those who feel that a law is unjust or unconstitutional to always vote not guilty and finally force the government into changing the law………. changing the same law, in a different manner, that the Martin Foundation and others are trying to do, only outside of a jury.
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This is taught in NRA seminars. Jury nullification.there are many other examples posted what to answer,specifics but this explains philosophy and their belief it is their right.http://www.joebrower.com/RKBA/RKBA_FILES/LAW/Juror_Handbook.pdf
Don’t split hairs, tower. Google how to serve on a jury to protect our 2nd amendment or similar words.
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2dogs, You are wrong, this was never taught in any seminar. In fact this is in one of the first sentences of this pamphlet:
“NRA failure to publish this article was another in a long series of giving in to tyranny.”
I read your link and it is more of a pamphlet than a “handbook” at 5 pages. You claimed it was from the NRA and it wasn’t, it was from a former NRA board member and former Arizona state senator Wayne Stump, who has a habit of writing anti-government letters/pamphlets. He was not stating the NRA’s beliefs he was trying to get the NRA to follow his beliefs. They wouldn’t print his pamphlet nor did the teach it or bring it up in any format.
You call it splitting hairs, I’m merely pointing out the facts to your incorrect statement about the NRA.
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How could anyone, let alone 2 , jurors even thought it was justified. It’s beyond comprehension.
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Hi xena,
I meant Corey Strolla , not Angela Cory . It is kind of confusing but I meant defendant’s attorney.
As to protecting jury , that can be done as it was In tubs’s trial. Don’t show their face or say names. They were very protected and it was only at their option, we found out names.
By jury instructions, I mean what is hashed out between attorneys and judge before presented to jury. We didn’t see this in tubs trial so I was taken aback when we saw this in Dunns. It was a bit of enlightenment for me.
All this is pre-digested( Mark Geragos term) meaning both sides agree to everything before any presentation. So rouer called to stand after Dunn was agreed to by both attorneys. The point I am making is not this but finding out everything is pre-digested between attorneys and judge makes jury instructions also agreed on. And we all know now, the duty to retreat if instigating was NOT given in jury instructions in tubs trial. Part B if you will.
Tubs was thrown by state.
Dunn, hope not but why weren’t we permitted to hear jury voir . Not SEE or hear names jurists but HEAR questions and answers.
The NRA guide to getting on a jury is very real. See above or google. They teach how important it is to get on a jury if it concerns gun rights and how to not present yourself as a gun nut .
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2dogsonly,
LOL! Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh — there were people on the other side searching for names of potential jurors based on information they gave during voir dire. And, it does limit questioning and answers.
West and Mantei (IIRC) zealously argued jury instructions. They even argued about including initial aggressor in the instructions and Judge Nelson said she was not including it because the defense didn’t want it included.
I respect your opinions and realize there are others who believe the same, but I don’t and I gave my reasons why. Could prosecutors have been more effective during cross-examination of defense witnesses? Yes. Could they have presented experts, for instance to address the clubhouse videos? Yes. Should they have put on a rebuttal case? Yes! Could they have been more observant to refute the defense’s demonstrations, such as O’Mara picking up the dummy by the shoulders when Zimmerman did not say that Trayvon lifted him up by the shoulders? Yes!
But for the reasons I presented previously, it’s my position that none of it would have made a difference with Juror B37 on the panel. According to her literary agent, Juror B37 said she voted to acquit because of “the manner in which he was arrested.”
I don’t doubt that at all.
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Xena: Could they have been more observant to refute the defense’s demonstrations, such as O’Mara picking up the dummy by the shoulders when Zimmerman did not say that Trayvon lifted him up by the shoulders? Yes!
The real problem with the dummy is that it didn’t accurately depict Piglet’s body the night of the shooting. If it had O’Mara wouldn’t have been able to pick it up so easily and it would have represented how much work Trayvon would have had to perform that night to slam Piglet’s fat head onto the sidewalk.
Allowing O’Mara to use that dummy backfired and gave those simple jurors the impression that Trayvon could have easily manhandled that big blob that night.
Xena: But for the reasons I presented previously, it’s my position that none of it would have made a difference with Juror B37 on the panel. According to her literary agent, Juror B37 said she voted to acquit because of “the manner in which he was arrested.”
But the State didn’t use one of its challenges to strike her even after she characterized the protests as ‘riots’.
Then they allowed an all-female jury knowing that females are more likely to acquit-that’s something first year law students learn.
I respect your opinion that the State didn’t throw this case, but how many obvious mistakes can seasoned prosecutors make before you call BS?
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roderick2012,
My simple answer — because prosecutors are more accustomed to prosecuting people who look like Trayvon and do not relate to them as victims. Remember what SA Corey said in a post-trial interview, that they never disputed that an altercation took place? The State had an assumption and wasn’t sure how to prosecute the case — to totally defend that Trayvon was victim, or to argue that Trayvon was standing his ground.
What they tried doing at closing was arguing that Trayvon had a right to stand his ground, and while that is true had he harmed Zimmerman, the truth is that Trayvon didn’t cause those wounds.
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while i agree that the zimmerman trial was thrown, your statement
is incorrect. i watched every minute of the preparation of jury instructions for the zimmerman trial and i suspect you can find them on youtube on croakerqueen123’s channel. the jury instructions were discussed at length, argued mostly for the state by mantei and angela corey made her first appearance at the prosecution table for this event.
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It was 10to 2 at FIRST/ Initial vote. Those were never changed so you have two jurors hearing Strolla say p. 25 is what it’s about. Pay attention, juriors, P.25. P. 25 is justifiable defense.
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2dogsonly,
Got it! So that was 2 against 8 because 2 others were undecided. The 8 also read page 25 but didn’t agree that Dunn killed Jordan in self-defense, and they did not change their vote. With the 2 that were undecided, one went for the defense and one went for the prosecution.
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After hearing about the vote from Juror 4, I’m thinking that at this point the best thing that could happen at retrial would be another hung jury.
Really.
Here’s why:
Insignificant POS Michael Duh-un is probably going to spend the rest of his sorry-ass life in the slammer regardless. So I’m looking ahead to the upcoming gubernatorial election in Florida, where Tea Party, NRA/ALEC-loving incumbent Rick Scott will be facing moderate former-Republican-now-Democrat Charlie Christ. There is zero chance that Scott, if re-elected, will do anything about SYG. Christ, on the other hand, would likely support and maybe even help lead an effort for reform. He’d actually LISTEN to the Dream Defenders, at least.
Now, it’s well known that African-American voter turn-out drops in off year elections, and of course Scott’s forces are doing everything they can to suppress the minority vote. If Dunn gets convicted at retrial, the dominant media narrative will be, “See, the system worked. Everything is fine!” But everything is NOT fine, and a conviction for Dunn isn’t going to change any of the underlying structural problems. On the other hand, if Dunn get’s off AGAIN, I can see a wave of outrage surging on through November bringing out much-larger-than-usual numbers of African-Americans to the polls, despite whatever kind of restricted voting hours, long lines, ID check BS and whatnot Scott and his flunkys might try to put in their way.
We owe Jordan Davis more for the loss of his life than just tacking on a longer symbolic prison sentence for the Lilliputian bozo who took that life away. We owe him something that might lead to real change: like throwing the bums who concocted and have supported these insane self-defense statutes out of office.
Dunn was just the trigger-man, following a path cleared, landscaped and advertised with a giant flashing ‘Enter Here!’ sign by billionaire wing-nut ‘conservatives’ and the gun lobby. They’re as culpable as if they’d ordered the hit directly. Let THEM feel the heat of outrage. Let that fire burn so hot it reduces their political agenda to cinders.
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Actually, whether or not Dunn is convicted in May, outrage over the gz acquittal lives on as I have witnessed from my limited reading of Twitter, blogs, newspapers, and watching rallies.
Also, I as a White person, I cannot predict the African American vote or speak for African Americans regarding turnout for THIS mid-term election.
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i.e.
I pray that Dunn will be convicted.
I do not think that people will think the SYG law system works if Dunn is convicted because people ALREADY know the system does NOT work from witnessing the GZ trial….people are already outraged.
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Jury instructions posted were the ones the Judge read to the jury…not what was hashed out between state, Mom, west, and Judge Nelson. You couldn’t post those because they have never been made public.
In dunn’s case, the hashing out was viewed by public which was how I discovered that jury instructions are previously decided on..as well as who can be called ( pre-digested).
Sorry, it I’m not being clear as to my fear.
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2dogsonly,
Re: jury instructions. Are you talking about in-court arguments or the final instructions, because the changes are not made public because they are not final.
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In court instructions were public in Dunn trial. Not in tubs, though.
I’ll find them on you tube on croaker queen and post them.
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2dogsonly,
I refrain from embedding long videos. The one in Zimmerman’s case that begins arguments over jury instructions is posted on Axiom Amnesia’s YouTube channel for July 10, 2013. It’s over a hour long, and the argument begins around 1:04 (one hour and 4 minutes) into the video.
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I agree 100% with Whonoze. Unin tended consequences can surely bring about change. Btw, the NRA lobby is the strongest lobby in DC.
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None of it makes any sense to me from the beginning. If you pull into an area where you don’t feel comfortable, leave. As far as not liking the music, he was only going to be there a few moments so what was the point? Just wait the couple of minutes and leave. It isn’t like you are stuck next to it in a 1-1/2 hour commute to work or something. I just don’t understand ANY of it.
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exactly whonoze, and Jordan’s fathers response does not reflect a man that is satisfied with them trying to convince that his son was in any way responsible for his death, or that his murder was anything other than murder. I agree. The jury may not understand but to black people it is imperative that our murders be acknowledged, what they have essentially said to everyone is that the word of a black person is always suspected as a lie, and the word of a white person even when the evidence shows contrary is always the truth. I can only pray as a resident of Florida, that neither myself nor my family encounter a life or death situation.
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I’m glad this juror spoke.
Also 9 thought Dunn should haved moved and it wasn’t self defense.
9 out of 12 not bad.
I believe it was 10 out of 12, but someone was still not decided.
The 2 that thought he was justified are racist and no one will ever change their mind.
Say for instance GOD FORBID, you had Dunn, the racist on a trial of the same.
No one on any jury would ever convince him that he wasn’t justified and we all know why the 2 did what they did.
I was thinking it would be one, but when you think about it, they couldn’t change the 2 that tought he was justified.
Actully too bad that those 2 got on the jury, but they did somehow.
If I were his parents, I would NEVER forgive him fotr taking my son away because of his hate that will dwell in him forever.
You can’t take that away.
But, on the other hand I have to admit I would be thankful for the 10 that believed and fought for my son.
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Here is the ” importance of jury nullification” by the NRA
Click to access Juror_Handbook.pdf
Go to p. 4
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I have a question about ms. nancy grace.
The other night when Piers Morgan brought up about the gun she screeched out OH no, not about the gun laws again.
WHY????
She’s so against violence why would she mock Piers about the guns.
He’s serious!! Plus she called him a Brit. Like we don’t need a Brit telling us about gun violence!!
So as much as she says so so for the innocent why in the hell didn’t she just say right, too many guns in the wrongs hands?
I wish when she brings up her twins that her next guest orinterviewer just sceeches out OH NO, not about the twins again.
NOW, I don’t have anything agaist the twin. I actually feel very sorry for them.
GZ nor MD are the type of people that need a gun.
There are many out there just like them too.
The idiot that says we need more guns, needs more of a life and let others live.
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John guy just announced case will be retried in May.
Dunn’s parents paid 100k to Strolla. Out of money now so wonder if
Strolla will bow out and public defender take over.
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I wonder if that was actually Dunn’s money that he was able to transfer to his parents before he was arrested.
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On the phone calls released, he says his parents have paid 100k and he wonders if they will continue to also pay his salary. They had paid first attorney, Robin ? 10k and were broke.,wanted honey pie to get his guns out of safe and sell them. And retrieve his car to sell. Mentioned they were rebuilding his credit and once sweetie gets lawyer refund, she should pay off AMEX 5k.
He is quite deluded..really thinks his attorney deposit will be returned and impound place will return his car before impound fees mount over his belief it’s worth 9k.
He reminded me in so many ways of tubs. Just spends money, blames it on girlfriend, and expects his wishes to be done with no basis in reality.
His parents hired Strolla , tubs again! fired very well known jax. Criminal attorney, Mitch Stone. His Dad said Strolla graduated from the best law school in USA,( Stetson ),in top 2% of criminal trial lawyers. Strolla is a DUI lawyer and not from Jax.
But Daddy is paying for him so wtf.
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Well, we know it didn’t come from here…………
http://www.gofundme.com/4ite74
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He raised a total of $310.00!! That bought him what — about an hour of Strolla’s time?
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The NRA calls for jury nullification regardless of statue or evidence. They say using jury nullification will prevent their gun rights and 2nd amendment rights from being taken away. Further, that it is imperative they get on juries where gun rights are a part or their pets will be killed . ( ok, they don’t say that..but very hysterical about potential).
If it takes perjury so be it, if kid is killed, so be it. Their instructions, folks, not mine.
Oh Xena, I do see where discussion about what to include or exclude to jury. You are brilliant! But how did state allow a juror who referred to demonstrations as riots get on jury? And how does a judge exclude duty to retreat portion of SYG law. As well, as allowing tub’s uncle to testify but not voice experts. So many instances of ruling for defense.
Just a small antidote…the cousin of the dream defenders looked at a building I had for rent. This happened right after verdict. I said stay strong for Trayvon and what did he think about verdict. He explained who he was and they knew half way in, trial was being thrown.
He also said tubs had turned down a 2 million dollar offer from tv. I just laughed it off but last month tubs was threatening AP( he got it confused with TV station)that he would tell everyone what they had offered.
John guy going to be on 6:00 news CBS
You’re my hero, brainiac. 😉
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2dogsonly,
That’s a hard call half-way through trial. I was waiting on the State’s rebuttal that never came. IMHO, had the case been thrown, there would have been a majority jury vote in the beginning, but it wasn’t. The first vote was 3 to 3; with 2 wanting manslaughter and 1 wanting 2nd degree murder. That is why it was important for the defense to have a persuasive stealth juror on the panel.
Because, when they were going through who to exclude, the defense argued that the State was excluding White women.
I did a video about how O’Mara identified the stealth juror, and wrote an article about it that was posted on 3Chicspolitico. http://3chicspolitico.com/2013/07/23/juror-b37-mark-omara-and-jury-tampering/
That page received over 6,000 views the day that it was posted. This video is the longest one I ever put together, but it was necessary to support my theory.
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Because, when they were going through who to exclude, the defense argued that the State was excluding White women.
I remember O’Mara’s lame objection, but IIRC the State could still had three strikes they could use and it didn’t have to be for any reason.
Also I thought I remembered that the percentage of white female potential jurors was disproportionately large.
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roderick2012,
Not sure now — it’s been a long time but I remember thinking that the State was preserving those strikes for potential jurors who were more obviously prejudicial than B37.
Yes. Judge Nelson did address that.
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“Yes. Judge Nelson did address that.”
So why did she agree with O’Mara’s objection about excluding B37 and the other female juror and put them back on the jury?
I’m sorry that entire trial was one big conspiracy.
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I listened to the two hour visit between Dunn and his son. What I came away from was
1)son very casually tells Dad he has also been in jail, as in ” oh, Dad, did I mention I went to church last night”?
No typical parental reaction. Dunn immediately returned the focus to his case/life/wishes.
finally, did ask so so why?
Son, again casually, shares that he had been as master shoplifter. Again, no typical parental reaction.
Son jumped to credit card fraud, facing 1 yr. in jail, got it knocked down to 21 days. Served his time.
2)The buzzing of NASA air space enacted huge govt. action..FBI, Gun sniffing dogs. this was a hahaha moment between father and his son.
3) Dunn got a DUI but never completed community service hours.
4)Son never shared his type 1 diabetes with his Dad. No contact since son’s HS graduation, 5 years ago.
5) Extended periods of silence, one daughter is out of there. wants nothing to do w/ her toad of a father. Rourer is too panicked to visit but they talk daily. My heart goes out to them big time.
6) Dunn cries like a little baby at times. Does not express any concern for how his actions impacted his son.
7) Does not know how in the hell this happened!
Saving the best for last!!!
8) this is the big one…
DUNN NEVER MENTIONS kids had a gun,,,
says they called me names and verbally attacked me.
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Fear goggles explained.
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A pix is worth a thousand words. What a black kid look like to an old white man trying to claw his way back to relevancy. Changing democratics, time to accept it, old white men.
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thanks for posting, xena. it sounds like this woman and many others fought the good fight which for me, at least, is good to hear. i hope round 2 goes better with a more probative juror questionnaire before they even get to the voir dire stage.
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fauxmccoy,
HEY!
I agree. The State now has a framework to use to know what they must do at re-trial to prove their case.
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Yep, they do have the framework to get him. And the best part is that the defense has shot it’s load. What else can they produce…..a stick ?? They sure can’t produce a shotgun and i believe the prosecution will use everything.
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not only that, unless some big time defense lawyer shows up willing to take on this loser pro bono (which i highly doubt) the retrial will be with a public defender. sure, some are good, no denying that, but most are over worked and under paid and are not overly invested in the outcome.
strolla was a hack, whose only trick was ‘possible doubt’ … i don’t think his next lawyer will do any better and will quite possibly be much, much worse. mr dunn is now entering the po’ folks justice system, which he will soon realize is much different. should i be gloating? well, it’s not nice, but neither is shooting unarmed kids in the back.
what i do want, is to see the state do better, most especially on juror selection.
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Will this one do……..hey, it could happen !!
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Good news.
Hope he is convicted in May.
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Fauxmccoy you and Xena are correct. There were televised jury instructions on Zimmerman trial.i still question how the pertinent part of 2nd part b of SYG “need to retreat if you are the instigator” ( paraphrasing) could and was denied by judge Nelson.
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I hope John guy is not the prosecutor on the retry. He did such a poor job on Trayvon’s case and calling Jonathan Davis loud and never painting what a nice kid he was, ROTC followed his first trial meme.
He was just on tv quite angry that people were saying he hadn’t worked hard enough…”they can come look at my time sheets”. People aren’t saying he didn’t work long hours but he didn’t tie picture of the victim. Just played defense as he did in
Trayvon’s trial.
Wonder if Maitai is still with prosecutor’s office. I thought he was brilliant.
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“I hope John guy is not the prosecutor on the retry. He did such a poor job on Trayvon’s case and calling Jonathan Davis loud and never painting what a nice kid he was, ROTC followed his first trial meme.”
Well at least someone agrees with me that Guy was assisting the prosecution by emphazing a negative characteristic about the victim which lends credibility to the idea that Jordan could have threatened Dunn.
Guy really pissed me off when during his opening statements in Piglet’s trial he agreed that Trayvon assaulted Piglet.
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Again, I feel ashamed for so many walking the face of this earth that consider themselves to be supreme, or above others. I hesitate to call them human.
I was very enlightened by everything Juror #4 had to say.
If I may? Please let me tell you I was born and raised in Detroit. I lived there, before having to flee with my family during the riots. How were they described? They were, and have always been described as the “Race Riots”.
Race Riots? There was bussing taking place. My school friends were being taken away from me. I had dear black and white friends that were now being told by their parents they couldn’t speak to their friends of the other “What I call PIGMENT anymore!” People got angry. Riots broke out. Families left their homes………and it made me what I am today.
I raised my children to see NO color, but to see friendship, and love. There is so much violence in the world today, and it includes ALL races. (Which is far different than racism) Both of my sons loved loud music growing up…..but, because they are white, would Dunn have murdered them? I think not. If one of my sons had been walking through Zimmermans neighborhood………would he have followed them? Confronted them? I think not.
Think America…………Think hard! Racism is alive and well.
God Bless you Jordan.
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kindhear — so very good to see you again, dear friend.
i suspect if it had been my 17 year old self blasting johnny cash’s “wanted man” live from san quentin at max volume, dunn would not have batted an eye. he’d probably be singing along.
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So very good to see you also Faux!
My children are in their 30’s and 40’s, and I am so proud to say they learned well, and see no difference between anyone. We lived all over the world when they were growing up, and I always made certain they saw the value, and differences in lifestyles, beliefs, and customs.
Though Dunn will die in jail, I pray they put him on trial again and find him guilty of murder, just so Jordans family and friends have some sort of closure.
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Xena…………I love your new Gravatar! It is so you. 🙂
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KINDHEART101!!!
Thank you!
Just seeing your fonts brings a smile to my heart.
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Earlier Interview:
“A TV Star Had To Explain Why A White Man Killing A Black Kid Is An American Problem, Not A Black One”
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John M. Phillips @JohnPhillips 18h
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Interview video:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/jordan-davis-parents-interview-2014-michael-dunn-trial-22577689
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this bears repeating.
I posted what I thought were the take aways in son’s visit.( posted it up further)
in this two hour visit, not once does Dunn say a word about guns, or seeing anything threatening . but repeats that they said really nasty things.
kids said horrible mean things to me? I never have heard words like that spoken.
so I had to attempt to blow their brains out. ( last sentence is mine) but maybe John Guy could have mentioned this to jury. a
A teen cusses you and you open fire???
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Thanks for emphasizing this, 2dogsonly.
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The Life and Last Days of Jordan Davis.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/the-life-and-last-days-of-jordan-davis
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oh xena, thank you so much for posting. hearing about good times and even the rough times did my heart good. such enduring sorrow for those parents, i hope that they can come to a state of grace.
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Just watched above interview. Did not realize Jordan Davis was the only child of Lucy. 😦
Thanks Xena for posting it.
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2dogsonly,
Lucia has talked about having a difficult pregnancy, not being able to work, and pretty much being on bed rest in order to birth Jordan into this world. He was her only child.
I was just watching jury selection in the Schenecker (sp?) case — the woman in Tampa who shot and killed her two teen children for “mouthing off” to her. Potential jurors were crying and being dismissed left and right because they can’t understand how a mom would kill her own children.
Change the perspective to a teen mouthing off at a stranger, and the stranger killing that child, and jurors think it was justified.
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or that just being to get pregnant was such a huge obstacle. it just adds to the crushing sadness and loss.
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Xena, today you introduced me to Tim Wise ( bet cha didn’t even know you did that).:-)
I’ve listened to 3 of his lectures so far and our assumption that black men are really really scary –and if they’re over say age of 10,- we kind of put them in that scary box, prevents justice for any AA kid. For sure in the south and maybe throughout the entire US of A.
I just wanted to scream when I heard John Guy say ” how he hates loud base music too” in his opening statement. I thought, well great here we go again. Another slam dunk easily won case thrown by Angela Corey’s office. Just STFU, John Guy cause this incompleted spree killing is not about fucken MUSIC. Not one bit about music or kids character. But he went there just like he and BDLR went to their white folk’s collective unconsciousness racial fears in Trayvon’s murder. Over and over and over again.
He’s much younger than BDLR so I thought he won’t be as prejudice as old white Bernie,the catholic, ( remember that bit of bonding Bernie did) trying to understand an America where he’s no longer in the majority.
Just fucken crept right in there. Instead of explaining to a southern jury that this case is NOT about music and these kids are not on trial. Got It, Folks?
Thanks so much for listing Tim Wise. Learning soo much.
Yep, we cry when a mentally ill parent kills her children but not when a white man kills someone’s Black child. When people my age down to around 50-55 die, America will become much more civilized.
I could be wrong about that cause I thought we had put racism in our rear view mirror when we elected an AA president.
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2dogsonly,
I highly respect Tim Wise and Jane Elliot and am happy to hear that you enjoy Tim Wise.
Dog whistles. I heard them in Zimmerman’s case much more than in Dunn’s. That in fact, Dunn screamed a dog whistle when he referred to Jordan as a “son of a bitch” who wasn’t going to kill him. That expresses anger rather than fear. Prosecutors should have been able to point that out to the jury. They couldn’t. They couldn’t because they have no experience recognizing dog whistles.
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What is a dog whistle? Sorry, 😉
This was an easier case to win than even Tubs. There is only scam, con, hate in Dunn’s history. I mean really terrifying history…brutalizing two x wives, conning his parents, buzzing a NASA air space so he had to be escorted down by fighter pilots, contract put out on a former business partner, no relationship with his children. He has never felt fear. He pulled in beside those kids to start trouble and he shot 10 times in a public area and an upscale area. Left scene, went back to motel, ordered pizza, never called police.
The detectives did a splendid job, even searched Gate station roof with a helicopter. There was 5 witnesses, gun shots heard on store video.
Yet, John Guy opened with yes, he “hates the loud base music too”. Dear god.
If Judge hadn’t ruled the attempted shots were to be separated from the self defense, he may have been hung on those also.
The Florida self defense laws suck but that almost unconscious fear that Mr. Wise discusses on his videos you posted was on display, once again, by a large city prosecutor’s office. It reared when John Guy mentioned loud music as an ISSUE and NEVER displayed how it was impossible for Dunn to get out of his car. And there was plenty of parking available if music was an issue.
Dunn wasn’t ever going to see outside again but prosecutors need to take some kind of sensitivity training as the world is changing and there are many white guys seriously upset that they are not accorded the ” respect” they are accustom to getting. The horrific result is black kids are scapegoated and killed. And the, even large cities’ state prosecutors slip in their own fear, not consciously but that may be worse.
Dunn was perfectly clear about how disrespected he felt and yet there was a hung jury which means John Guy lost the easiest case to win ever.
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When I watched the interviews with the 2 jurors, and they addressed how they hung on the 1st degree murder charge, is when I cringed. Some of them believed that Jordan actually threatened Dunn, and they did not weigh his actions after the purported threat, and that he said Jordan was getting back into the SUV when he fired. A person running away is not a threat.
What I was hoping the prosecution would argue, (along with other things), is that it was Dunn who left the scene, making it an unsolved murder — not a case of self-defense. He could not, in good-faith, argue that the cops did not look for a gun in the SUV. The cops were investigating a murder — not a defense for committing murder.
Dunn’s defense demonstrates an attitude of privilege — entitlement.
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2dogsonly,
I agree. Guy gave the jury a reason to think that playing music loud is wrong.
I hope at the next trial that they bring in the actual door to the SUV and show the path the bullets would have taken had that door been opened when Dunn fired the shots that killed Jordan.
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Strolla, with only a 100k budget, took his defense techniques straight out of O’Mara’s very successful “How To Defend using Self Defense When Your Client Has No Defense” and won — a hung jury is winning.
John Guy and Angela Corey, with over a million dollar budget,used the same prosecution technique they used in their most recent defeat and made it a self defense case instead of a murder.
Losing two out of two high profile cases places their skills in the “you can’t make this up category”.
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